Some Ann Arbor residents seek moratorium as DTE Energy continues installation of 'smart meters'

Posted on Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:59 a.m.

Some Ann Arbor residents seek moratorium as DTE Energy continues installation of 'smart meters'

By Ryan J. Stanton

Darren Schmidt, a holistic doctor and CEO of the Nutritional Healing Center of Ann Arbor, recommends a book called "Dirty Electricity" to Ann Arbor City Council members, warning of the dangers of electromagnetic and radio frequencies.

Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com

A group of Ann Arbor residents is lobbying city hall to stop DTE Energy's installation of so-called "smart meters" on area homes, voicing concerns about potential health risks.

"Having these smart meters put in our neighborhoods is like living in a microwave, and you can't turn them off," said Darren Schmidt, a holistic doctor and CEO of the Nutritional Healing Center of Ann Arbor. "We need to put a moratorium on this."

Schmidt shared that message before the Ann Arbor City Council at its last meeting, but city officials haven't been quick to act on the suggestion.

Mayor John Hieftje said a resident dropped off materials at his office and he's taking a look at it, but he thinks it's an issue better suited for the city's Environmental Commission.

"I'm still wading my way through the material and trying to separate what is reality and what is exaggeration," he said.

Ann Arbor resident Nanci Gerler urges the Ann Arbor City Council earlier this month to support a moratorium on smart meters.

Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com

DTE in February launched a plan to install smart meters at 120,000 homes throughout Washtenaw County, including Ann Arbor, Saline, Ypsilanti, Chelsea, Dexter and the townships.

The Detroit-based utility's decision came as the Michigan Public Service Commission continues its statewide investigation into the health and cost implications of the devices.

Hieftje isn't yet convinced there's a problem with smart meters. He said the technology behind the new electric meters DTE is installing is not so different from the advanced water meters the city already installed on homes throughout Ann Arbor.

"The city of Ann Arbor has had a similar meter in that it sends a radio signal about how much water a person has used," he said, adding it's more efficient and saves the city money. "There have been no complaints and those have been in place a number of years."

Conflicting data about smart meters — which remotely transmit data about a consumer's energy usage — is being presented by groups on both sides of the debate.

The American Academy of Environmental Medicine sent a position paper to the MPSC on April 12 urging "immediate caution" on smart meters, expressing concerns that electromagnetic frequencies, including radio frequencies, can negatively impact human health.

The paper was jointly submitted by four doctors, including the groups's president-elect Amy Dean, a doctor of osteopathic medicine from Ann Arbor.

They claim existing federal guidelines for radio-frequency exposure, which have been used to justify smart meters, are inadequate and only address thermal tissue damage.

Citing peer-reviewed scientific literature, the AAEM paper concludes significant harmful biological effects occur from non-thermal radio-frequency exposure.

"This means that there is a cause and effect relationship between RF emissions, which are the emissions from 'smart meters,' and adverse health effects," the letter states, citing potential for genetic damage, reproductive defects, cancer, neurological degeneration, nervous system dysfunction, immune system dysfunction, memory loss and kidney damage.

Scott Simons, a spokesman for DTE, said about 34,000 of the smart meters planned for Washtenaw County have been installed so far and more are coming.

This smart meter was installed at the home of an Ann Arbor resident.

Melanie Maxwell | AnnArbor.com

Asked what DTE's response has been to people who don't want them on their homes, Simons cited an opt-out program that's in the works. Residents would pay a fee for opting out.

"We're absolutely confident in the safety, security and benefits provided by advanced meters," Simons said. "At the same time, we also recognize this is a very emotional issue for a very small number of our customers and that's why we're developing an option that would allow individuals to opt out of the advanced meter program."

The MPSC has been compiling information through a public comment period that ended April 16. Its staff is now sifting through hundreds of pages of documents that were submitted and will issue a report by June 29.

"The commission speaks through its orders, so anything the commission has to say will be done via order when that time comes," said Judy Palnau, a spokeswoman for the MPSC.

The MPSC launched its investigation in January after a number of municipalities throughout Michigan passed resolutions asking the commission to look into smart meters.

The City Council in Sterling Heights in January instituted a moratorium on smart meters until an option to refuse installation is given to all residents. Some residents want the Ann Arbor City Council to do the same before more of the devices are installed.

Ann Arbor resident Nanci Gerler said DTE is making no exceptions and isn't giving consumers a chance to opt out right now. She said she was told recently that if she refused to allow placement of a smart meter on her home that her electricity could be shut off.

"And I think this really violates my rights and civil liberties," she said, urging council members to approve a moratorium at their last meeting.

Gerler, a psychic practicing in Ann Arbor, said she's electro-hypersensitive and has an aversion to microwaves, computers, smartphones and other gadgets that send out electromagnetic frequencies, including radio frequencies.

Gerler said she and other neighbors have put up notices that they don't want smart meters installed in their neighborhood. She said that's led to tense encounters with DTE's meter installers who, in some cases, have ignored the notices.

As the battle continues, Gerler now has a locked wire cage around the old meter on her home in hopes of preventing installation of a new smart meter.

In its order back in January, the MPSC directed all regulated electric utilities to submit information regarding the deployment of smart meters.

DTE submitted a 98-page response on March 16, outlining its plans for installing nearly 2.6 million electric smart meters, while MichCon, its subsidiary, installs 1.3 million new gas modules as part of a project that began in 2008.

The total cost is shown at $586 million.

DTE says there are numerous benefits, including cost savings, associated with the installation of smart meters, which allow the company to remotely monitor power outages and allow customers to track their own personal energy usage online.

DTE addressed the health implications of smart meters in its response to the MPSC, claiming the radio-frequency emissions that occur when the meter sends data are at very low levels, and according to studies used by DTE, they do not cause negative health effects.

The company noted all of the smart meters it is installing fall well below the federal standards for radio-frequency emissions. DTE says the emissions from smart meters are similar to that emitted by a remote control or garage door opener.

"Further, the RF emissions from AMI smart meters are remarkably less than those emitted by many other household devices such as a remote control for a TV, remote car entry, baby monitor, microwave oven, and cell phone," DTE's response states.

DTE is installing meters manufactured by Liberty Lake, Wash.-based Itron Inc., which says its meters transmit for less than 100 seconds during a 24-hour period.

Some still aren't convinced, though.

Technician Garron Jackson installs a new DTE Energy smart meter at the home of an Ann Arbor resident.

Melanie Maxwell I AnnArbor.com

Schmidt, of the Nutritional Healing Center, said he sees a lot of people with chronic diseases at his practice. About three or four years ago, he said, he started seeing problems with fatigue and brain problems, memory loss, sleep disorders and even Parkinson's disease.

"After about two years of trying to figure it out, I came upon dirty electricity — electromagnetic fields and radio frequencies causing this," Schmidt said.

Schmidt recommends a book called "Dirty Electricity," written by an epidemiologist who says electromagnetic and radio frequencies are the No. 1 cause of cancer in the U.S. and people who work with computers have a 50 percent greater chance of having a heart attack.

He also recommends another book called "Zapped," which offers ways to avoid the hazards of electronic pollution.

Schmidt said 3 percent to 5 percent of the population is "extremely hypersensitive" to electromagnetic fields and 35 percent to 50 percent are sensitive, "but they may not know it." He said many of those people will go to a doctor and get prescribed Prozac, "but that's not the solution."

"Most doctors don't know anything about this condition," he said.

Among the documents the MPSC is sifting through is a seven-page statement from State Attorney General Bill Schuette, who remains skeptical of smart meters.

Schuette said at least two substantial issues must be addressed before the MPSC authorizes or approves any further deployment of smart meters.

"First, there must be a sufficient demonstration that implementation of the smart meter programs will actually produce a net economic benefit to customers," he said. "Second, customers must be afforded a meaningful and fair opportunity to opt out of smart meter installation without being penalized by unwarranted and excessive costs."

Schuette said neither DTE nor Consumers Energy has demonstrated a net economic benefit to electric utility ratepayers from smart meters.

Until that's demonstrated, he said he'll continue to oppose any MPSC action that "unjustly and unreasonably imposes the costs of such programs upon ratepayers."

Schuette further stated that utility customers "should be given a meaningful choice of whether to have smart meters installed and operated on their property" and that requiring customers who opt out to pay an unwarranted penalty fee does not afford them that choice.

Gerler told Ann Arbor officials at the last council meeting that dozens of communities from Michigan to California are fighting smart meters because of concerns about health risks.

"We are so conscientious in so many ways, yet this one kind of slipped under the radar because it's new to us," she said. "We need to exercise the precautionary principle here. It has to be proven safe before it's implemented. Not let's just deal with the effects after the fact."

Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's email newsletters.

Comments

R V

Mon, May 14, 2012 : 8:07 a.m.

Wow, this is beautiful ignorance ... the net radiation from one of these meters is about 1/10000th of a cellphone at the same distance, due to the very infrequent transmissions.

SueFo64

Tue, May 8, 2012 : 6:45 p.m.

Context People.... I remember my first day of Toxicology. Our teacher told us everything is toxic - even water. If you hold your head in a bucket of water long enough it will kill you. Don't just react - put things in context! As a scientist, I am doubtful of someone being "electro-hypersensitive". I can't wear a watch - but it has more to do with the wristband and skin not being about to breath. I don't automatically jump to electro-hypersensitivity. Hypochondriac comes to mind though.

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Thu, May 3, 2012 : 3:20 a.m.

"Recent deployment of 'smart meters' for residential electricity, water and gas billing at homes emit RF. The billing information could be went over existing phone lines or over fiber-optic lines. Other 'smart grid' schemes for self-regulating appliances will also increase residential RF exposure. I believe that the recent increase in the incidence of malignant melanoma and thyroid cancer is due to these fields.". - Samuel Milham, M.D., MPH

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Thu, May 31, 2012 : 12:03 a.m.

SueFo64 - did you read the book? Dirty Electricty.

SueFo64

Tue, May 8, 2012 : 7:43 p.m.

"I believe that the recent increase in the incidence of malignant melanoma and thyroid cancer is due to these fields." Sorry Samuel... but in the lab we say "Without data, it's just an opinion."

Sallyxyz

Wed, May 2, 2012 : 12:24 a.m.

I've read in various other news sources online that certain cities in CA, for example, experienced a huge spike in their electric bills after installation of the smart meters. There are also areas of CA that are not allowing the installation of these meters due to health concerns. However, I do think the biggest issue is privacy. Now, DTE can monitor your electric usage 24/7, not just get an aggregate reading once a month. It's no one's business when someone decides to run their electric clothes dryer, turn on their air conditioner, set their security alarm system, turn on or off their lights, or use their computer. Smart Grid networks uniquely identify individual electrical appliances, and create new privacy risks. The Smart Grid includes a host of technologies that will allow unprecedented communication between American energy providers and energy consumers. However, it will also dramatically transform the ability of providers of power services in the United States to track the activities of consumers. The Trans-Atlantic Consumer Dialogue (TACD), a coalition of consumer groups in Europe and North America, adopted a report on privacy and electrical services at the 12th Annual TACD meeting held recently in Brussels. The Smart Meter White Paper warns the "dramatic increase in the granularity of data available and frequency of collection of household energy consumption means that the smallest detail of household life can be revealed." Smart meters and appliances transmitting user data wirelessly introduce threats to consumers. Strong security and privacy standards need to address the risks of identity theft, unauthorized access, and individual surveillance. I do not know what standards are in place to address the privacy and security issues of smart meters that monitor individual consumer behavior in Michigan, who can access the data, or what happens if the system is hacked, but this is a very disturbing aspect of these smart meters.

elGato

Wed, May 2, 2012 : 2:44 a.m.

at least you have an intelligent argument against them, unlike the town psychic...

melon

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 8:28 p.m.

Smart meters have a lot of potential to change the way we use energy, and help us all put some money back in our pockets. Unfortunately DTE does not get it yet, hopefully they will adopt the Green Button standard ASAP. Here is a post on my experience working with DTE and SDG&E http://www.melonpower.com/1/post/2012/05/it-was-the-best-of-times-it-was-the-worst-of-times-for-smart-meters.html

HeimerBoodle

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 5:21 p.m.

In other news, Ancient Aliens used microwaves to chart EMF readings so they could contact the spirit world. I saw it on YouTube AND heard someone talking about it in a health food store, it must be true!

HeimerBoodle

Wed, May 2, 2012 : 5:47 p.m.

Indeed, that is all you can say without, in fact, providing proof (anecdotal evidence and crackpot videos do not constitute proof. If they did, all your base would belong to us and Rick Astley would be our benevolent overlord, never letting us go). Other than that, I'm not clear on your point...unhealthy behavior doesn't negate healthy behavior? Or do you contend that flu shots are in the same league as fast food? Sorry, I'm struggling here. In terms of "real life", my life involves not buying into paranoid theories doled out by the town psychic.

Cindy

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 11:39 p.m.

All I can say is "the proof is in the pudding". Have a big Mac, supersized coke and fries on your way to getting a flu shot at cvs while you pick up your prescriptions. Now that is the real life!

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:36 a.m.

Smart Meter technology has an entirely different application that will not become apparent until these things are installed everywhere. According to CIA's General Petraeus, Smart technology's will be used to spy on people. I don't mean that in a traditional sense of the word, but in this case it will be used to track energy usage. Whether people know it or not, we are being pushed into a 21st century plan (crazy plan) to abolish fiat money and switch to carbon currency. This will supposedly ensure just and fair use of natural resources and is supposedly going to eliminate poverty, starvation, etc. etc. You will be given carbon (energy) allotments. You will spend those on things you need and they will be tracked and traced so you don't get more than your fair share. Your Smart Meter will provide you with the energy you are allotted; nothing more and nothing less. You will not be able to carry over carbon from month to month. I know it sounds nuts and personally, I think it is nuts. But, that's the plan. Petraeus should take note of what CIA Director Wm. Colby said about the US government and plans like this: "We always fail."

DBH

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 4:34 p.m.

@Paloma, interesting. Reference, please, for your claim?

Ron Granger

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 10:48 p.m.

"Assessment of Radiofrequency Microwave Radiation Emissions from Smart Meters" http://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/

Jim

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 8:02 p.m.

The REAL issue with smart meters is if the consumer is going to be the one making decisions about their power use (e.g. real time pricing) or is DTE going to be 'big brother' and just shut off power to the devices it deems 'optional'. Unfortunately, the power companies seem to favor this 'top down' approach, and oddly so does the Ann Arbor elite. I think this is the wrong way to go.

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:38 a.m.

You'll get an energy allottment and the Smart Meter will act like a bank. They experimented with this in Minnesota. Citizens were given an energy allotment that they could purchase at market rate. If they used more than "their fair share" they were charged a premium. This was a tremendous hardship and the MPUC Commissioners ordered the Utility provider to repay those who were forced to pay the extra dough. Carbon currency is the stupid idea for the future.

leaguebus

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:39 p.m.

I just had mine installed and it runs at 2.4ghz which is where the 802 WiFi gear is located. That radiation is everywhere, all over hospitals, I have a wireless router in my house, lots of stores, etc. don't really know why these people have decided to draw the line with DTE. Sounds like there is some unknown agenda here.

rayjay

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:05 p.m.

"Most doctors don't know anything about this condition". I'm sure there's a good reason for that!

Cindy

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:50 p.m.

Yes, there is a very good reason. They only know how to poison, cut and burn. This is beyond their narrow minds.

G. Orwell

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:41 p.m.

What should alarm people is that smart meters can be hacked. Why take the chance? There is really no benefit to consumers but huge risk and health and privacy issues. Stop smart meters.

Ken B

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 6:52 p.m.

Hacked? Oh yah, I never thought of that. Gosh I wonder what the hackers can get into. Do you think I should close out my bank accounts and put the money under my mattress where it will certainly be safer? Now we're getting somewhere with all of this.

Are you serious?

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:45 p.m.

The "hacking" in the media has to do with people altering the reading that is sent to the power company to steal electricity. What exactly are you worried about? No one can hack a device like this and get any information other than consumption. It's no like the meter has a hidden remote camera that can spy on you or steal your credit card numbers. What privacy are you worried about? By measuring your consumption no one can tell what you are doing.

David

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:41 p.m.

A psychic??? Stop right there. (Ha, ha, ha, ha.) Where is the scientific evidence for rf danger? Science is not based on conjecture or hysteria.

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:04 p.m.

http://stopsmartmeters.org/2011/04/20/daniel-hirsch-on-ccsts-fuzzy-math/ Here's some science for you David.

peg dash fab

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:55 a.m.

I see the American Academy of Environmental Medicine is one of the leading opponents of fluoridation. Mmm hmm.

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 6:06 p.m.

http://stopsmartmeters.org/2011/04/20/daniel-hirsch-on-ccsts-fuzzy-math/ Here since you don't mind some corporate DTE shoving crap down your throat - Here's something that isn't...

bruno_uno

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:27 a.m.

smart meters — which remotely transmit data about a consumer's energy usage — can we use these for the public to remotely transmit the money spent on dte's consultants usage?

Cindy

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:24 a.m.

Check this out: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/02/09/new-study-confirms-electrical-pollution-from-cell-phones-and-wifi-is-hazardous.aspx

Terri

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:41 a.m.

Mercola? huh

Cindy

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:30 a.m.

We met two ladies on vacation last year whose husbands had worked at DTE in Detroit. Both of them died from cancer in their fifties. The ladies said it was not uncommon for the guys working in the plant to die young. We are now exposed to way more EMF's than ever. None of us want to do without our modern conveniences and our electronic toys. We can be protected. EMF shields. Google it.

elGato

Wed, May 2, 2012 : 2:47 a.m.

oh brother

HeimerBoodle

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 5:26 p.m.

Thanks - I was looking for a way to spend more money than on plain old tinfoil! Next time, try googling "correlation does not imply causation" and "anecdotal evidence".

Cindy

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:55 a.m.

I googled it for you. www.safespaceprotection.com

OLDTIMER3

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:13 a.m.

@notableedingheartliberal, Okay know it all the brochure I read was 11 months ago so it is a fairly new one and those were the warnings on it. Not mine anyway, my brothers.It must do something because I've been with him when we walked into stores and it set the alarms off.

Michael Longo

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:59 a.m.

I won't get into the discussion of the dangers of smart meters, but here's a simple check for non-ionizing radiation that anyone can do. Just take a battery operated AM radio. Tune it to a quiet spot on the high end of the AM band and turn up the volume. Then just hold it near anything you want to check. Some suggestions are any power outlet, a cell phone (powered on or off), your TV, your computer, your wiFi router if you have one, a fluorescent light, your electric meter (smart or not), your water meter, a clock, ...... This isn't quantitative, but it will give you a pretty good idea of radiation levels from common objects, so you'll know which things to avoid if you are radiation sensitive.

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Thu, May 3, 2012 : 4:29 a.m.

@peg dash fab -there is ionizing that burns and non ionizing that causes cancer. They are both harmful. Just because an energy is non-ionizing doesn't mean it's safe.

Left is Right

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:05 a.m.

It's a good experiment and I've always gotten a kick out of it. Dimmers are especially bad. On the downside, there's so much hash in the air nowadays it makes shortwave listening tough.

peg dash fab

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:58 a.m.

You do recognize the significance of the first three letters in the term "non-ionizing radiation," don't you?

HappilyRetired

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:17 a.m.

It sure is easy for those of you unaffected to laugh at the problems many of us experience. I believe asbestos was considered safe at one time.....

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:42 a.m.

Cigarettes didn't cause cancer and they didn't lace them with addictive additives to cause use rates to go up either. Low frequency, impulsive infrasound is used as a directional military weapons system because of it's unique ability to travel through walls, bunkers, concrete, metal.....and disable the intended target. Despite the fact that large industrial wind turbines emit low frequency, impulsive infrasound, the health impacts from them are also poo-pooed.

jcj

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:42 p.m.

I feel like I'm watching the "Twilight Zone". If this is the biggest thing we have to worry about bring it on! I want to be sick when I die. The thought of dying healthy depresses me!

jcj

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:22 a.m.

J. I agree and I should not have made light of being sick and dying. I heard a comedian making fun of all the health fanatics once and that was his line. My mother died of cancer and was sick for a while before her death. I certainly did not intend to make light of the suffering some people go through.

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 1:36 a.m.

Perhaps you should spend ONE day in the cancer ward at the University!!! You would be depressed if you were sick like them...

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:23 p.m.

I work at the university hospital and see plenty of patients everyday with cancer. I'm sure all of the toxic load on our bodies have something to do with that. I think everyone going against Darren Schmidt hasn't even looked into the whole picture. Ferndale residents are concerned also. http://michiganstopsmartmeters.com/ Some words from Harvard Physician: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n7L21XOC2wA#!

peg dash fab

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3 a.m.

Sorry, but unless you are a psychic or a quack — er, I mean holistic — doctor, your opinion is not useful here.

cynthia knox

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:21 p.m.

This is my first post here, despite being a daily reader of annarbor.com. I live in an Ann Arbor apartment complex. Outside my window there are 20 old meters which I assume will be converted to new smart meters. It looks something like the link I've posted below. Almost every complex in Ann arbor has such concentrations of meters (seen or unseen). Tell me who wants to live with such an array of meters within inches of their heads? Would you put a new-born's head next to such an array of meters? Why is it legal to treat college students like experimental animals to be irradiated? Have the safety studies considered twenty meters transmitting right into someone's bedroom 24/7? Whatever they tell us about the frequency of transmission could change. It could change from every five minutes to every five seconds without them telling us. Since they won't let us opt out it seems DTE can't be trusted. I don't like the fact that they are going to be tracking our usage. Will my employer be able access my electrical record to see if I'm really at home sick? Since it seems to be legal for them to ask for our facebook passwords, why not your electrical bill? http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/39185/2/stock-photo-39185-electric-meters-array.jpg

Useless

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:02 p.m.

A Psychic? Really? We are quoting psychics for our life safety? Wow.

justcurious

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:59 p.m.

"As the battle continues, Gerler now has a locked wire cage around the old meter on her home in hopes of preventing installation of a new smart meter." She may be party to a lawsuit in the future for not allowing access. Hopefully she is aware of this. Ms. Dig also needs access to electrical meters in order to locate underground lines.

Cendra Lynn

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:38 p.m.

No news is no news. There is not one citation in this article any scientific paper on this topic, either pro or con. Definitely no peer-reviewed published paper. Calling people up and writing down their opinions is not exactly investigative reporting.

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Thu, May 3, 2012 : 4:26 a.m.

Read the books mentioned in the article.

David Cahill

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:11 p.m.

I am amused that "Dreiseitl" has become a meme for something stupid. Imagine - generations of Ann Arborites yet to be born will be snickering about "Dreiseitl" long after the sculpture has been hauled off to the trash.

DNB

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 9:20 p.m.

Love the song, grateful! Thanks for the laugh. It needs to be front and center in an article, where it can be appreciated by others here in A2.

a2grateful

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:15 p.m.

Actually, the meme is the stupidity and corruption involving unethical, and possibly fraudulent and illegal, use of dedicated millage funds for non-related mayor/council pet projects. The Dreiseitl is the symbol for this environment, lead by the mayor, and passed to generations of city council. Let's hope this environment is what gets hauled to the trash. Until this happens, maybe we can be happy by singing the melody from the "Dreidel Song," with updated lyrics, while we play the Dreiseitl game! We bought a little Dreiseitl Our heads made out of clay And when the audit's over In prison we shall play CHORUS Oh Dreiseitl Dreiseitl Dreiseitl Our heads made out of clay And when the audit's over In prison we shall play City council was a body With ethics short and thin With budget stretched and tired Stolen millage funds their win! CHORUS My Dreiseitl's always playful Purchase ethics dance and spin A happy game of Dreiseitl A court challenge let's begin!

James J. Gould

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:46 p.m.

Has anyone taken the time to think of all the electro-magnetic field created by the household wiring that surrounds you 24/7/365. Everytime you turn on anything, electricty flows and creates an EMF. That surrounds you completely and there is no escape. The other facit of this is the real reason they are installing remote reading..... to eliminate the meter readers and related expense. That savings should offset the installation cost and it should NOT be passed on to customers ! In fact, after the cost of installation is ammortized, the cost savings should be passed on to customers.

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:40 p.m.

DTE has never and will never pass any cost savings onto consumers. They are a for-profit entity that exists solely to maximize profit to shareholders. What motivation do they have to return money to consumers? Zero. They are a monopoly.

justcurious

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:43 p.m.

Glad I don't live in Ann Arbor with all the smart folks. Can't wait to get our new smart meter installed. Bring it on!!

rusty shackelford

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:29 p.m.

I was going to guess that guy's profession as "coxswain." Learn something new every day, I guess.

maureen

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:04 p.m.

1950's - Cigarettes won't kill you. What a idiot. Everyone is smoking and we're all fine. What century you from anyway? Smoke has been around since the invention of fire. Smoke is everywhere and you just have to get used to it. My kids love it, too. "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should". Nobody is getting cancer or getting sick. Keep your opinions to yourself because my doctor says cigarettes are perfectly safe. 2012 - Microwave radiation is safe and everyone is using it. You live in a hole somewhere? Put a tin foil hat on buddy. What an idiot. If you don't like it then just shut off your electricity. Kids need wifi in schools to learn. I need my cell phone with me at all times and keep it in my bra next to my heart. I love my cell tower in my neighborhood cuz I get great cell coverage now....what's this lump?

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:46 a.m.

Which part of what this person posted was "fallacy"? Cigarettes cause lung cancer. They can cause throat cancer, too. And how 'bout cancer of the mouth/tongue. As for microwaves not being harmful......no time to answer, my Orville Redenbacher Movie-Theatre microwave popcorn is done. How do those safe little microwaves do that?

Mike

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:19 p.m.

And we have a new annarbor.com record for most logical fallacies in one post.

dexterreader

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:01 p.m.

I don't see very many people giving up cell phones because they cause brain tumors. In this day and age, smart meters probably rank among the least of the things people should be worried about.

maureen

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:21 p.m.

Smart Meters have problems with health, privacy, safety, security and cost. Let's talk privacy and Fourth Amendment violations.... Smart Meters are being deployed on every American household replacing traditional meters for electric, gas and water usage. These meters are "smart" in that they can collect your private data detailing how you live your life. As a form of wiretapping, government officials that came up with this plan knew that they were violating privacy laws but went ahead with the plan to install them anyway. CIA Director Patreaus is giddy with excitement over the ability to spy on every American without the bother of warrants (see March 2012 Wired magazine article). NSA is building a Data Collection Center in Bluffdale, Utah to store private data collected from American citizens. They also knowingly violate the Constitution, Electronic Privacy laws, Intelligence Acts of 1947 and 1978, Stored Communications Act and other laws governing Federal communications. NSA works with companies like AT&T to collect private data. The data is then sent over to the collection center in Utah (see the Wired magazine article) where it is stored and analyzed on every American citizen. It's called Domestic Spying. The same thing will happen with your personal living habits data that they get from the "smart" meter collection devices. Do not allow your home to be invaded by the government using an unhealthful, wireless, unsafe, not secure and costly device. Do not allow the utility to install the meters. You have all the rights and power to keep these units off your home. Do not be intimidated and get the facts. www.StopOCSmartMeters.com

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:53 a.m.

Maureen, this will be used to track how many "resources" you use. The whackadoodles wanting to build the One World Government utopia think we need to abandon fiat money and turn to carbon as a currency. Since carbon is the equivalent of fairy dust they will need to distribute this "money" so people can purchase those things they need. Meter's and things like the VeriChip are the technologies that will be employed to track what you spend and how you spend it. Most people are not aware of the NSA facilities and do things like "tag" photos because it's just so fun. The NSA just received upgraded facial recognition software so they can pull a pic of you from a crowd of thousands in 30 seconds or less. "Tagging" in Facebook helps them. The SmartMeter technology's will facilitate lock-step, top down control of populations. But don't worry, it'll be for our own good. No one knows how to take care of you better than some pencil neck, trust fund baby.

DonBee

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:12 a.m.

maureen - The DTE meters record 1 reading each hour. That reading is in kilowatt-hours. Given the number of devices we turn on and turn off in our homes each hour or go on and off automatically, there is very little you can tell from hourly readings about what someone is doing.

ronald

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:59 p.m.

Walker This technology has been in use for over 25 years. Show me where people are getting sick an dying from it. Ann Arbor has used them for at least 20 years. Not one death attributed to it. Your cell phone will kill you quicker. You are right about Obama care though.

peg dash fab

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:03 a.m.

YpsiVeteran, I hope you are as skeptical when the quacks and psychics are making their pitch.

YpsiVeteran

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:19 a.m.

Who said there aren't fates worse than death? There a plenty of problems plaguing humans at all-time-high rates, several cancers and various brain disorders among them. So far, "nothing" causes anything, right? Not herbicides, insecticides, mutant proteins being introduced into the food supply in the form of genetically modified produce, industrial farming, record levels of particulates in the air, mercury and other toxins in the water and now constant bombardment, just about wherever you go, from high-frequency electromagnetic fields. No one knows what the impacts of most of these relatively recent pollutants and technologies are, and the majority of the research about any of it is conducted by the agencies that are profit from each specific thing. A healthy dose of skepticism is not only reasonable, the lack thereof makes one highly suspect.

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:56 p.m.

The World Health Organization says the Frequencies from smart meters is a class 2 b carcinogen.

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:55 a.m.

You tried, Dr. Schmidt.

Brad

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:09 a.m.

IARC put cell-phone RF into its category 2B, meaning it is "possibly carcinogenic to humans." Also in group 2B, according to IARC's website: the antibiotic Ampicillin, coffee, chlorinated drinking water, hair-coloring products, pickled vegetables and talc. So smart meters are a threat on par with ... pickles? And of course, chlorinated water, which we all know to be the Devil's work.

1bit

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 10:37 a.m.

I believe he confused smart meters with cell phones. There has since been even more evidence the latter are safe. Also, a "class 2b" carcinogen sounds scary but is not on par with things like asbestos.

DonBee

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:10 a.m.

Dr Schmidt - Reference link please, I can not find it on the WHO website. I can find a number of reports that say low level (e.g. 1 watt) signals are not an issue. The smart meters operate at between 1/4 and 1/2 a watt. So WHO [World Health Organization - A UN agency] indicates it is not an issue.

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:24 p.m.

See below comment from J! Keep fighting the good fight. These people also think it's good to pour herbicides on their lawns to make the dandelions go away :)

mhirzel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:53 p.m.

Yaah, in his wisdom, says, "Are these people serious? "Electromagnetic sensitivity" is nonsense." The Karolinska Institute - which awards the Nobel Prizes in Physiology and Medicine - issued the following press release on smart meter technology in Feb 2011. "Scientists Urge Halt of Wireless Rollout and Call for New Safety Standards: Warning Issued on Risks to Children and Pregnant Women" http://www.scribd.com/doc/48148346/Karolinska-Institute-Press-Release Smart Meter cheerleaders: Debate it with the Karolinska Institute of Neurosciences.

SMC

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:15 p.m.

Don't worry, folks. The foil hats will protect you from DTE's microwaves.

NotABleedingHeartLiberal

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:43 p.m.

DTE has always been over priced and lacking in customer service. They used to estimate bills and now they will be able to remote read. This means they can probably remote disconnect also. It is nice that they did this without taking a concensus, because it gives you all something else to whine about!

Are you serious?

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:07 p.m.

Ryan - this story begs for a couple of Surveys. Here are some suggested questions: Do you believe any of the following: The earth is flat? The earth is about 4,000 years old? Humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time on earth? AD/HD can be cured by turning off all electrical devices and living in a cave or? Science is just a conspiracy for the government to control our lives? RF energy from the smart meters is making me sick? RF energy from all my other sources - cell phones, computers, wifi routers, is irrelevant? Smart meters can spy on what I'm doing in my house? I cannot do arithmetic higher than 1st grade so I am not able to read my own meter and figure out my consumption? There are no credible scientists at the University of Michigan? I would not believe the so-called scientists. They are just a tool of the corporate, capitalistic, Marxist, Communistic(?) government?

Are you serious?

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:58 p.m.

I wonder if the psychic knew this was going to happen years ago and warned everyone about it.

G. Orwell

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:41 p.m.

Not only are smart meters dangerous, they will be used to spy on residents and they give energy companies the ability to restrict electricity to your home or business. Far too much control over our lives by corporatists and federal government. Smart meters must be stopped! Many municipalities in California have banned them. Courts have also ruled NO opt-out fees are required. Spying operation and how to opt-out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNFr_j6kdI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:58 a.m.

Getting ready for the carbon currency world, George. You'll get your Veri-Chip and your Smart Meter will bank your carbon. Off you go to the store to buy your food. All will be totaled and tracked electronically so you don't have to carry money! This lock-step, top down control from the elitist trust fund snobs sitting on the Council of Foreign Relations etc. is for your own good. It will eliminate poverty, starvation and disease and make sure we all have the same amount of everything. Except them: they'll have more.

1bit

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:46 a.m.

"Smart meters must be stopped!" It's quotes like these that make your comments priceless. I really must renew my subscription to Conspiracy Theory Weekly.

OLDTIMER3

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:39 p.m.

For those worried about RF levels around your house do a search titled SMART METER HACKING.

5c0++ H4d13y

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:23 p.m.

Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 12:58 a.m.

OMG! One of my favorite quotes!

OLDTIMER3

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:12 p.m.

What about people with cardio implants who are not to use cell phones cordless drills or chainsaws plus other devices? You aren't even supposed to stand infront of these scanners at entrances & exits to stores or hand held wands at airports.

A2Realilty

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:32 a.m.

Those people don't need to worry. According to many commentors, they'll be dead from cancer long before their cardio implants are affected.

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:47 p.m.

So notableedingheart, cardiac patients "should" be ok. I'm sure they'll be relieved that you're ok with the risk there. What if they are not? Where is the choice for these people? It may seem ridiculous to you, but there are still people in the USA who choose not to use cell phones (I'm not one of them) and whose homes are not hotspots. I thought this was America, and people were free to choose for themselves, regardless of the opinions of others.

Left is Right

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:15 p.m.

Actually, I like "cradiac." Kind of head and heart.

NotABleedingHeartLiberal

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:50 p.m.

before you jump all over me......CARDIAC....see I know how to spell it, i was just typing fast.

NotABleedingHeartLiberal

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:49 p.m.

What kind of prehistoric device are you sporting? The effect of RF on a cradiac device is only if the devices are within 6-10 inches of the each other. So, unless you plan on cuddling up next to your meter on a cold winters night...you should be good!

Random Man

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 3:55 p.m.

Smart Meters, Underground parking Decks and Trans Authority Plans. It all sounds like the devil is trying to take over Ann Arbor. I of course suspect witches and think we should listen to these learned people and begin trials; to determine where these witches be!

glimmertwin

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 3:40 p.m.

I saw a fuzzy creature come out of my cell phone and run to my water meter one night. I'm sure he will like having another meter place to hide in.

ffej440

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:47 p.m.

@ CASH - thanks for the links. We must all be sure to watch the rates. If you go to DTEs website and look under rate choices, you will see the rates currently charged under the smart meter program. Despite the shock from readers, these have been around for a year or so as a billing choice. I know folks in Ypsi and Saline that had switched billing. Important we watch that DTE doesnt force us all to the "demand" rate as few of us will save, most will pay more.

u812

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:40 p.m.

people have no problem paying $100 to $200 dollars a month for cable but expect utilities to be free(water/sewer,electricity/gas)

u812

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:04 p.m.

buy a generator(diesel fuel or regular gas-o-line)

johnnya2

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:15 p.m.

I have competition for my television viewing. I pay nothing to cable, since I made the decision to use DirectV. Others can choose Comcast. or Dish, or UVerse from my address. Tell me the options I have for electricity?

ffej440

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:39 p.m.

Where have you people been ? You should pay attention to what your government does and why- not wait till it takes place and whine about a subject you don't understand. THIS IS PART OF THE D.O.E. SMART GRID PROGRAM. - this is nothing new, matching funds program approved years ago. At some point DTE has to install these as part of the nationwide smart grid. The goal is to have a nationwide grid that can monitor at all times and be able to take input electric as well as output. Have you all forgotten the Blackout ?? Remember the nation calling out for a smart grid? This is part of what YOU asked for.

Greg M

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 5:21 p.m.

@Paloma - The grid is already all connected; has been for a long time. Google "NERC".

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 1:01 a.m.

It's going to be swell, isn't it? When they're all done when California has a rolling black out they'll get to share it with their friends in Delaware because the grid will all be connected. I can't see any national security issues with this. None at all. It's going to be great. ffej440: most people have no idea what their government is doing. They believe they're free because that's what they've been told.

Tony Livingston

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:36 p.m.

I wonder if there is a measuring instrument that could tell me what level of waves there are in my house. This discussion has inspired me to take a look at it.

yohan

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:27 p.m.

There is, It's called a "spectrum analyzer" very expensive and requires training.

SalineSara

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:36 p.m.

The real issue is having consumption monitored 24/7. Will DTE pull the plug if a consumer consumes "too much" juice? Maybe not at first but the Politburo will eventually impose limits on all comrades with excessive punitive measures. The erosion of liberty continues all in the name of "the public good".

Paloma

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 1:10 a.m.

So there are "enlightened" Americans out there. Wonderful! You're correct in that they are going to monitor but they're trying to destroy the dollar and eliminate the over-consuming middle class because the world cannot sustain us. You'll get carbon currency allotments on your SmartTechnologies. These will be determined based upon your worth to the collective. You lose them if you do not use them every month. It's absolute craziness updated right out of Hitler's playbook for creating utopia. The German people accepted it as we are: for the good of the homeland.

Are you serious?

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:16 p.m.

Assuming you mean the government when you say Politburo, how exactly does the government profit by imposing limits on consumption? Seems to me they would like people to waste energy so they could make more money.

Rob

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:28 p.m.

Being alive is the number one cause of sickness and death, but I'm still going to take the risks that go along with it.

MRunner73

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:15 p.m.

Folks should read the post from Ken B. Unfortunately, people will hear or believe what they want. BTW: The transmitting the data to DTE at these more freuquent intervals will allow them them to generate electiricty more accurately. The individual consumption of electricity will also be more accurate. I vote yea to the safety of the smart meters.

tommy_t

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:55 p.m.

"The transmitting the data to DTE at these more freuquent intervals will allow them them to generate electiricty more accurately. The individual consumption of electricity will also be more accurate." This is true However take it further- the data collected will be used to justify more expensive hour-to-hour electrical rates during what will be pointed to as "peak consumption " times. Get real your rates are not going to be going down because of increased efficiency on their part - they will be going WAY up to try and match the general energy gouging currently explained away as laissez-faire and world competitive pressures.

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:43 p.m.

"..whose only interest," not "who's"...I get started about DTE and my fingers get minds of their own.

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:42 p.m.

Something less than what just brought them $156 million in first quarter PROFIT. Not revenue, profit. They are a for-profit business who's only interest is earning every increasing profits for shareholders. DTE has ZERO incentive to do anything other than maximize profit. They don't care about safety or infrastructure improvement (like burying all these ridiculous overhead lines) or customer satisfaction or anything else. They are "regulated" by a body they own, and are free to hold the entire region hostage.

Are you serious?

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:14 p.m.

YpsiVeteran - just wondering what you think a fair price would be for electricity and gas? How low would it have to be to not be roughshod?

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:03 p.m.

Does DTE really need a "smart" meter to tell them that they need to generate more electricity when most people are awake? Seriously? To me, the issue has little to do with safety and everything to do with an unregulated monopoly riding roughshod over consumers and everyone else. They've already had their 1st rate increase attributable to these "cost saving" meters slapped down by the courts. Do you think they're going to give up?

Ron Granger

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:57 p.m.

Smart Meters have already been hacked. And the headline below is wrong - nothing costs utilities - those costs are all passed on to the "consumers". The key is that the utilities get to profit from costs in their "cost plus" model, where higher prices mean higher profits. FBI Warns Smart Meter Hacking May Cost Utility Companies $400 Million A Year http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/fbi-warns-smart-meter-hacking-may-cost-utilities-400-million-year

YpsiVeteran

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:06 a.m.

Not to mention the probability that someone will figure out how to make it appear as though their electrical usage is coming from their neighbor's house. How exactly will you prove that your electrical consumption isn't what the meter 'says' it is, if in fact you get hacked and someone's using 'your frequency' to transmit their usage data? I'm also wild about the idea of making it easier for someone or some group to disconnect us all from the grid with tapping of a few keys on a keyboard. Seems like a great new national security perk.

johnnya2

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:12 p.m.

@FFE, it is not living in fear. It is realizing that the hacking will lead to DTE possibly shutting off people's electricity. I have not heard of many cases of hacking with the current system. For a person to screw with the current system, they must actually enter my property. The "smart" meters will mean people could do it from the street.

Are you serious?

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:11 p.m.

Wow! It MAY cost $400 million! That is about $2 per person a year or less than a penny a day. The economy will collapse! I suspect the utilities will not be too worried about that.

ffej440

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:07 p.m.

Ron- Everything can be hacked. We can not live our lives in fear of thieves.

Dog Guy

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:15 p.m.

Thank you for the link--especially the stinger on hacking smart parking meters.

johnnya2

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:45 p.m.

I think the main reason I do not want smart meters has NOTHING to do with radio transmissions. I want to know how DTE got a rate increase to pay for these. If this is designed to help THEIR operational efficiency, they should not be allowed to increase their rates. When they reach these efficiencies, we will never hear about how they brought the rates back down. This is another example of a MONOPOLY trying to decide when we can use their product. What will end up happening is DTE will charge based on time off day usage, then it will get worse from there. They will start mandatory brown outs to those that use too much at the wrong time, because it is far more important to keep corporations running with their electricity versus people. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot, in the right wing world corporations are people.

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:35 p.m.

No Basic Bob, it will cost them less, and they will reap more profit. WE have never and will never see any savings from DTE. Never. They are a for-profit monopoly. Exactly what motivation do they have to return money to the consumer? They will reduce their costs to increase their profits. Not-for-profit electrical cooperatives, such as those that operate the public electric utilities in some parts of Colorado, return money to rate payers. DTE is the worst of the worst in public utilities.

Basic Bob

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:12 p.m.

@johnnya2, This is actually quite easy. This is a PUBLIC utility, regulated by our state government bureaucracy. They tell the bureaucrats what it costs to provide electricity and then they can only charge what WE let them. They can't do something as expensive and intrusive as changing meters in every single house without approval from the bureaucracy. If we agree to let them spend money now, they will replace meter readers with automation. It will cost them less to check our meters and in the future WE will see the savings.

Hammer

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:34 p.m.

I remember when power lines were the bogey-man. Don't hear much about them anymore.

annarborfan

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 4:07 p.m.

They did a study of the effects of electricity from power lines on the cows in the pasture. Cows became sterile. FACT - LOOK IT UP.

Chudate

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.

"And I think this really violates my rights and civil liberties," she said. REALLY? If you don't how a company that you purchase a good from is doing business, then stop buying from them. If you don't want to go through the hassle of making other arrangements for your power, then live in the dark. That'd probably be better for your imaginary condition, anyway.

Dog Guy

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:24 p.m.

I hadn't known that DTE was foisting "Smart" meters on us. Unlike Sturgeon's Revelation, "90% of everything is crap.", the Smart Observation has been running 100%: Anything marketed with "Smart" attached is the worst available. I have offered this observation to my kids and my students for years with a bounty for disproving it. Several attempts at collecting this bounty failed of a majority of a peer jury. I have never previously offered the Smart Observation to the public at large because of the presumed educative value of buying a "Smart" anything. The proliferation of "Smart" products appealing to the habitual vice of Pride and unwarranted Ego indicates either that people never learn or that there is a Smart customer born every minute.

mhirzel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:50 p.m.

Hey, Dog Guy..... Hard to imagine how you've kept your job in our system of education, with an attitude like yours. Teaching kids to actually THINK????!! ? Isn't there a law against that?

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:49 p.m.

I zeroed in your statement, and I quote "Anything marketed with "Smart" attached is the worst available." Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

Dog Guy

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:55 p.m.

For Craig Lounsbury, the "Smart Observation" is a pedantic paradox intended to stimulate thought and discussion of "Smart" marketing--most especially in this election year. As observations go, it is the worst available.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:47 p.m.

upon further review should I assume your playing a game of semantics around the definition of "smart"? If so you might "win" in the short run, but you will likely lose in the "long run" as the meaning of words evolves over time.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:40 p.m.

I'm not sure I get your point. But the Android phone with the gingerbread OS I carry is light years ahead of the landline dial phone with a party line I remember as a kid. Its light years ahead of the first "car phone" I was given for work 15-20 years ago. So the ambiguous label of "smart" is 100% accurate relative to its ancestors.

Rob T

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:20 p.m.

This article is way too balanced. There's overwhelming scientific evidence that there's no such thing as electromagnetic sensitivity, but like 'vaccines cause autism' and 'teach the controversy' the debate drags on. I'm disappointed AnnArbor.com didn't call it like it is and find good sources to explain why this is quackery.

Jeffersonian Liberal

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:18 p.m.

You people are missing the point here. Any idiot can track his rate costs for a period of time and figure out if there is an unusual spike in use. This is nothing more than the progressives wanting to tell us what is the allowable use of electricity. The Marxist occupying the White House promised to bankrupt the coal industry and he is using the EPA to do it. Electrical producers have shelved all projects for new coal fired plants and they will be closing many older ones. You can cover the west coast of the state with windmills and it won't come close to making up for the loss. Enjoy the steamy summer with limited air conditioning.

OleSprky

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:10 p.m.

soooo.... people are up in arms about a silly meter that sends info via RF to DTE, yet these same people are probably in a house or frequent places with wifi for internet, or happen to have a cell phone that they keep plastered to their head so they can tell other people about how sick their electric meter is going to make them. Lest we forget about the TVs in times of yore tht got their signal with the rabbit ear antennas, people didn't bitch about the RFs hitting them then. How about listening to WWJ or WRIF in your car? Guess what, more RF frequencies. And if that wasn't enough... oh Lord help us, the remote for the TV has RF and or Infared signals in it. Seriously, if you're this worried about the signal coming from these meters hurting you, try worrying about the hundreds of meter reading jobs that are being cut because of them and how the families of those readers are hurting because of them.

ChrisW

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:30 p.m.

And it makes no difference if you are actually listening to the radio - the signal is there regardless.

Tesla

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:08 p.m.

You've got to be kidding me. LOL Are they going to have to start p[passing out tin foil hats at city council meetings anymore? Good lord.

peg dash fab

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:12 a.m.

mhirzel, considering that the (manufactured) controversy is over the health effects of low levels of NON-IONIZING radiation, the appeal to tin-foil hats, which were invented to block such transmissions, is completely appropriate.

mhirzel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:25 p.m.

Is there any better example of group-think than that EVERYONE thinks they're clever when they use the code-words "tin-foil hats"? "Trust us. We're Experts."

jns131

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:03 p.m.

When we got a shut off notice, yes a threatening shut off notice, we agreed to let them change that meter inside the house. Then we were told that they changed the meter outside the house when it was changed last year due to a rewiring of our house due to fire hazards. Why they changed it is beyond me. Now they are threatening to shut us off so they can re wire that damn thing. I want things back the way they were. And they are refusing. We have DTE coming to our Neighborhood Watch meeting to give them a piece of our minds. I wish they would ask instead of taking. I really hate DTE. Is there anything out there better then this?

jns131

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 2:28 p.m.

Cash? I totally agree. Sometimes I wonder if they are in on it with the white house.

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:19 p.m.

They have more power than God...don't cross them. I know!

JGS

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:53 p.m.

OT: Totally agree with Cash - really clickable links is this hard? Then again if you look at MLive's forum structure and layout you'll realize that the same 8 year old designed who designed that, designed this comment system. Both MLive and A2.com are only about 10 years behind in technology. This OPINION piece brought to you by ME.

DBH

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:04 p.m.

Regarding the nonclickable URL links in the comments, I have complained to Tony Dearing about this a couple of times since their functionality was removed with the revisions to the website. This was his response to my latest inquiry regarding the status of restoring them (in the comments section of a story on AnnArbor.com winning an award, story dated 4/10/12): "I have not forgotten your concern about links in comments having to be cut-and-pasted because they are not hot links. In our previous system, we created that hot-link capability through a template overlay. But that approach also caused site performance issues for us in other areas. When we launched the latest version of the system, one of our goals was to use the basic platform as much as possible. We could create a template overlay that would restore the hot links in comments, but that would move us back in the direction of re-introducing other problems we were trying to solve. We're assessing whether we should go down that road again."

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:18 p.m.

Thank you....that drives me crazy!! It really hampers information sharing....which is what I thought this site was about. Okay to be honest it hampers it for me because I'm too lazy to open another tab, highlight, copy and paste. But in reality it does hamper information sharing. :-)

JGS

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:53 p.m.

and this 8 year old (me) can't get a handle on grammar or sentence structure. Ooops! Embarrassing! Oh well, I guess I'll have to just take it.

Denise Heberle

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:47 p.m.

I spoke with the man who checks our meter - he has to drive his own car, gets paid only $9/hr to support his family, but says he prefers that to no job.

yohan

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:22 p.m.

craig, it's called FREE TRADE. Your dad's job is now in China

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:09 p.m.

"When i was a kid we had a Milkman. Its called progress." Alternatively, when I was a kid my dad had a job. Its called..."

ffej440

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:10 p.m.

When i was a kid we had a Milkman. Its called progress.

lynel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:50 p.m.

He will soon have no job.

Brad

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:39 p.m.

The American Academy of Environmental Medicine is listed as a "suspect" on Quackwatch. They were formerly known as Society for Clinical Ecology. They are anti-fluoridation, anti-mercury-stabilized vaccines, anti-GMO and anti-electric fields. Or putting it another way, they are on par with the chiropractor, the psychic and the mayor as far as sources of science.

Brad

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:56 a.m.

If it walks like a quack and quacks like a quack ...

mhirzel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:22 p.m.

Your loss, Brad. (Quackwatch is one of our most effective tools for monopoly industry propaganda.)

ffej440

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:13 p.m.

Be carefull with "Quackwatch". The site is run by an unqualified "expert" on everything.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1 p.m.

which reminds me of a great joke..... a chiropractor, a psychic and a politician walk in to a bar......

David Cahill

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:30 p.m.

I agree with Marvin Face - probably for the first time ever! I have never felt threatened by the remote-reading water meter in my basement. My big concern is that my electric bill will go up, even with no increase in usage. Time will tell on that. Meanwhile, those who practice marginal medicine and those with "unusual" health conditions should really try out aluminum-foil hats.

mhirzel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:21 p.m.

"Meanwhile, those who practice marginal medicine and those with "unusual" health conditions should really try out aluminum-foil hats." GeezzzZ, David. I knew you years ago, from the Monroe St. house. I had the impression then that you were intelligent and courteous. Live and learn, I guess....

a2grateful

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:20 p.m.

Now, now. . . No reason to disparage foil hats. . . In fact (in a mayor/city council kind of way), I hear that the a2 art commission is ready to announce its new art project, one that potentially "benefits" every citizen. Foil hats! Yes, aluminum-foil hats, recycled from aluminum baseball bats! Designed by Dreiseitl, the foil bat hats are expected to cost only $1,000, each. However, the hats will only be distributed at the polls of August primaries, when most students are gone. This concession assures cost effectiveness, given the "turnout" of August primaries. Artful and r-wave protective!

jns131

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:06 p.m.

Ours has. Have you read that monthly ditty that says you are using more then your neighbors? We were not home during the time in question and yet big brother says we are still stealing energy. I hate to say it, but I agree with David on this one.

The Picker

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:27 p.m.

The city has had a smart meter on my house now for quite a while and they still can't tell me I have unusually high usage until I get a bill for a thousand dollars. I thought these meters were to alert us to high usage the day the high usage occurs. Why did they even install these expensive devices if they won't fully implement their useage? It does no more than my dumb meter did, just costs us more. P.S. Gerler and Schmidt need to put on their aluminum foil hats to protect themselves.

Marvin Face

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:23 p.m.

I believe that if those people who are worried about this would just wear their tin foil hats while the meters are transmitting, they would be safe. A "holistic doctor" and a psychic. That's rich!

justcary

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:18 p.m.

Bwaahahaha I forgot about those!

Ken B

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:21 p.m.

Folks, hold on. There has been lots of "opinion" but little "fact" presented on this issue. I think everyone would feel a lot different if they were given real facts. As chief engineer of WAAM Radio for 10 years, and three degrees from the U/M in electrical and computer engineering, I can say with little reservation that what I have seen expressed on this subject is pure fear-mongering at its worst, with virtually no facts to support the opinions. The Smart Meter sends its signals in very short bursts thru out a day, too briefly and too weakly to affect human tissue. The radio signal levels are FAR BELOW what anyone experiences from their microwave oven, cell phone, wireless home phones, or Wi-Fi computer networks in their homes. Further the electric fields from their refrigerator motor, electric oven, or the worst of all by orders of magnitude, an electric can opener, are far beyond the radiation of these smart meters!!!! There are many things in life that can be causes to worry about, but this one should be down around the bottom of the list, somewhere around meteor strikes. Unless you are living in a cave with no electricity at all, then you are experiencing electrical radiation every moment of your life that far exceeds that created by a Smart Meter. And if you are living in that cave then the smoke inhalation from your fires is way more dangerous, so I humbly suggest that there are many more actual issues in life to worry than this one. Bottom line . . . Facts should form your beliefs, rather than your beliefs dictating which facts inform you!

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Thu, May 3, 2012 : 11:02 a.m.

Thank you, nice info! Let me take it one step further... Add in all the emf's together and you have a toxic soup of electrosmog or "dirty electricity". This causes cancer and other health problems for some people, especially kids. It's not like a nuclear reactor melted down or you put your head in a microwave. It's much slower and effects way less people. If someone is sensitive, they can turn off appliances and wi-fi, etc. but they can't turn off a smart meter. Please read the book, "Dirty Electricity". This information is new, like 5 years old so they teach it in our esteemed universities. A graham/stetzer reading of 700 in an office building leads to higher rates of cancer, fatigue, depression and other symptoms. It's a combination of all the emf's. Smart meters are just another device to increase graham-stetzer units.

Ken B

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 11:47 a.m.

@maureen Maureen it is better to remain silent and have people think you are uneducated, than to speak and leave no doubt. When you say "Short bursts of pulsed lo- wattage high-energy density microwave radiation is emitted continuously from the Smart Meter." you clearly demonstrate that you have absolutely no knowledge of your subject matter. Virtually every word in that statement is totally incorrect with regard to smart meters. You have taken a phrase from a micro-wave text book that does NOT apply in any way, shape, or form to these meters (which are NOT pulsed, are not high energy, and are definitely not micro-wave!) Being kind to your statements, I would say they are incorrect by over a factor of about 1,000,000 to 1. I have designed, built, and worked around radio equipment for much of my life that is almost 1 Billion times (yes, that os the "B" word) more powerful that the radiation you are going to be exposed to from a Smart Meter. I still have my nose, all my toes, and everything else, and have not had more than a very few sick days my entire life. You are letting what you wish to think, determine what facts you choose to self-reinforce your thinking. Unfortunately you have been ignoring knowledge based science in the process, which is a shame because if you looked at the real facts it would help you understand that your fears are unnecessary and groundless. If you insist on believing what you have stated so far, then you seriously need to consider moving to a VERY REMOTE desert island where there is no electricity, or radio waves from TV, RADIO, CITIZENS BAND, WALKIE TALKIES, CELL PHONES, BLUE TOOTH, CORDLESS PHONES, WI-FI, POLICE & FIRE RADIOS as it is highly likely that these sources are more significant that your Smart Meter will ever be.

Left is Right

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:06 p.m.

@maureen EMF = electromotive force, what we commonly refer to as voltage. Relevant but not directly as you suggest. EMI (electromagnetic interference) is probably the term you're thinking of; it's the undesirable electromagnetic radiation (i.e. RF) emitted by appliances, computers, etc. as opposed to the desired RF for communications.

Terri

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:36 p.m.

Maureen, I suggest to take a look at a youtube video or something to familiarize yourself with sledgehammers.

maureen

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:58 p.m.

Short bursts of pulsed lo- wattage high-energy density microwave radiation is emitted continuously from the Smart Meter. It's like being hit with a sledgehammer several times a day. Yes, there is a problem with this type of radiation. Take a look at Dr. Madga Havas or Barrie Trower (retired British military physicist who worked with microwave radiation since the 1960's and was one of the chief investigators when the Russians used pulsed RF microwave radiation on our US Embassy making everyone there sick with cancer). You say, "the electric fields from their refrigerator motor, electric oven, or the worst of all by orders of magnitude, an electric can opener, are far beyond the radiation of these smart meters!!!!" If you are an engineer you would know that this type of radiation is called EMF and is from "wired" appliances. The article refers to a problem with "wireless" radiation or RF.

just a voice

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:21 p.m.

thank you, thank you, thank you, etc etc, can't say it enough, go science!

CincoDeMayo

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:53 p.m.

I also appreciate your comment. Maybe you can comment on the effect of SO many things leading to exposure, and the continuing list of items that will increase exposure? ".....microwave oven, cell phone, wireless home phones, or Wi-Fi computer networks in their homes. Further the electric fields from their refrigerator motor, electric oven, or the worst of all by orders of magnitude, an electric can opener, are far beyond the radiation of these smart meters!!!!"

MRunner73

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:12 p.m.

Thank You Mr Ken B. You are a very credible expert on this matter. I cannot understand why so many people resist change. It can be dangerous just getting out of bed in the morning, might twist an ankle or trip over something on the floor.

A2Realilty

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:56 p.m.

Please stop using facts. It makes these arguments no fun.

Carolyn

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:33 p.m.

Finally! Someone that actually has the educational background to give a credible opinion. Just like Stephen Colbert, someone can be a doctor, but that doesn't make them an expert in the medical field (even though it does make for great comedy when they pretend it does).

JPLewis

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:19 p.m.

Raise your hand if you have a wifi router, cell phone, cordless phone...etc. Carry on.

maureen

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:48 p.m.

Are you absolutely sure? Take a look at Dr. Magda Havas or Barrie Trower (retired British military physicist working with microwave radiation since the 1960's) on Youtube.

AAW

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:46 p.m.

I would bet that every one of these people have these and more things in their homes and their place of work. Plus there children are expose all day at school, McDonald, Wendys .... need I say more?????

DonBee

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:12 p.m.

One of the best rebuttals to this claims is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW6aAPKEoIE

Brad

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:11 p.m.

So being around smart meters is like "living in a microwave"? Except for that the power levels are thousands (at least) of times lower for the meters. We have a city full of highly-educated people including PhDs in electrical engineering and MDs with in-depth knowledge of these sorts of things. Yet for this "article" we interviewed a chiropractor, a psychic and the mayor. Please.

CincoDeMayo

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:47 p.m.

haha

SonnyDog09

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:51 p.m.

You must be new here.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:36 p.m.

good thing I swallowed my coffee before I got to this post. A definite candidate for "post of the year" and its still April.

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:09 p.m.

Interesting...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7L21XOC2wA

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:09 p.m.

I'm the guy in the picture. The biggest problem is for the double-digit percentage of the population who is sensitive to EMF's and radio frequencies (whether they know it or not). In the book "Zapped", it talks about a school where ALL the kids with allergic asthma were cured when their Dirty Electricity was cleaned up. ADHD and ADD were also cured similarly. In the big picture, smart meters are not the whole problem. Currently, the ambient air is so filled with radio frequencies, etc. that it's like having a working cell phone inches from your head 24/7. This is the total problem. If you choose to reduce your exposure, you can avoid cell phones, unplug appliances, stop using remote controls, avoid wi-fi, etc. but you cannot turn off a smart meter. The danger zone from a smart meter is a 30 foot radius. It penetrates most materials. All of this information comes from scientists I have studied. It's easy to find the info. I'm speaking out because I don't like to see people suffer. I don't want Ann Arbor's cancer rates to go up. I also don't want DTE to suffer huge lawsuits in the future, which is what I'm afraid may happen.

timjbd

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 11:17 a.m.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair "Only small secrets need protecting. Big secrets are protected by the incredulity of the public." -Marshall McLuhan

DNB

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:34 a.m.

@Mr. Queso: My kids have been folding tin foil all day -- Look for us by Mark's Carts on Monday.

Ricardo Queso

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:27 a.m.

An aluminum foil hat business would thrive in Ann Arbor.

DonBee

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:06 a.m.

maureen - Smart meters don't operate at a frequency even close to microwaves. So any impacts would be very, very different.

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 8:31 p.m.

Maureen and mhirzel, outstanding posts.

mhirzel

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:55 p.m.

Darren, In these comments you've had a very good demonstration of why it's the Public, and not really our corporate decision-makers who are the real PROBLEM. Without wide-spread objection and/or demand for solid evidence from independent researchers, free of conflicts of interest (if such an animal still exists!), people who do take the trouble to ask the right questions, such as yourself, to raise the issue of obvious distortion and unanswered questions, will ALWAYS be shouted down by the rabble. I've been studying this phenomenon for years now, and can only conclude that the majority finds it untenably uncomfortable to admit the idea that our experts" mislead us on issues too numerous to count, either thorough ignorance, or defense of institutional interests, on which their livelihoods depend. The scariest realization of my life (through first-hand experience) has been that the demographic most resistant to common sense dialogue on these issues is, ironically, our "best educated," who are, of course, the ones with the power and influence to demand answers to the right questions. While that sounds counter-intuitive, it's not really, when you look at how our "experts" are educated into hyper-allegiance to their professional institutions. Not at all conducive to maintenance of the capacity for independent thought. Institutions have found a very effective way of getting The Public to ignore the warnings of The Canaries in the Mine: Frame them as "tin-foil-hat-wearers," and people will eat it up and shout them down. It makes them feel better; it allows them to escape the chore of educating themselves and making their own decisions; it lets them feel "superior" to someone......a benefit even more rabidly sought in times of extreme uncertaintly, like ours. I am grateful to you for your efforts to raise awareness around this issue, but I am also want to warn you that what your efforts will lead to is exhaustion and extreme

maureen

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:44 p.m.

ronald

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:11 p.m.

Please doctor. Show one death in Ann Arbor from the R F water meters. We have had them for at least 20 years. 2 phone calls a day on a cell phone would be worse than the water,electric,and gas R F readers combined.

DonBee

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:28 p.m.

And Dihydrogen monoxide will kill you too. I would suggest a couple of real science and RF classes for you, there are some good ones at the UofM or Michigan State. If you have electricity in your house, or your office you get far more RF than you do from this issue. If you use a cell phone or a wireless computer you get more too.

Kafkaland

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:58 p.m.

A tin foil hat will work wonders to shield you from RF emissions. Consider wearing one 24/7. *snark off*

Plubius

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:34 p.m.

Darren - if you don't want people to suffer, stop foisting your rubbish on us.

DNB

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:46 p.m.

"it talks about a school where ALL the kids with allergic asthma were cured when their Dirty Electricity was cleaned up. ADHD and ADD were also cured similarly." Laughable! ADHD and ADD were also cured ... are you kidding? Get rid of the EMF's and radio frequencies around children, and we can throw away the Ritalin and the Adderall? I'm glad you alerted the media; our children will finally be cured.

sh1

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:45 p.m.

You can't "cure" ADD/ADHD. But even if you could, they would have to be caused to dirty electricity to be "cured" by the removal of dirty electricity. That holds as much water as autism being caused by vaccinations.

A2Realilty

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:54 p.m.

I strongly suspect that any conclusions from these "scientists" are likely based on correlation and not "causation." The notion that a smart meter is more hazardous than the almost countless other sourced off RF is absurd. If these items were valid sources of cancer, there would be obvious and tremendous outbreaks with easily identified causes. This isn't the case.

mr_annarbor

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:36 p.m.

I'm sorry, but this is all just baloney. All this talk about "dirty" electricity is all just pseudo-science. Chiropractors really need to stick with stretching back muscles and leave the science to real scientists.

1bit

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:30 p.m.

"If you choose to reduce your exposure, you can avoid cell phones, unplug appliances, stop using remote controls, avoid wi-fi, etc" Do you live in a hole in the ground? A different century? Where is this magical place without appliances, cell phones, televisions and computers? I genuinely believe in your intent and belief that radio frequencies are harmful, but I also believe that your "scientists" are misguided in their assertions of a deleterious health effect.

Dalex64

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:29 p.m.

Most of the sources of radiation you cite are on and present continuously, unlike the signals from these meters.

Brad

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:12 p.m.

So how do you feel about being around/using computers? What's your advice there?

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:43 a.m.

"DTE is installing meters manufactured by Liberty Lake, Wash.-based Itron Inc., which says its meters transmit for less than 100 seconds during a 24-hour period." How about a 100 seconds a month instead? For 48 years "the electric company" managed to bill the owners of my house (me since 1994) by sending a guy around once a month at most. Sometimes they estimated a month. Now that I have a smart meter they suddenly monitor me multiple times a day. They went from once every month or two, to multiple times a day with a product that has some controversy around it. Just tweak the darn thing to only send a message once a month and everyone will be happy.....or not.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:11 p.m.

Jake C, your siting the party line. But their ability to deliver power remains unchanged. Further they don't need to monitor me several times a day to know people turn on their air conditioners when it gets over 80 degrees.

Jake C

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:50 p.m.

Craig, the point of these isn't just to transmit your total monthly usage to DTE - if that was it, it would take DTE a long long time to see any cost savings. The goal is to get better data about how much energy is being used in various areas at different times of day in order to deliver power more efficiently. Also to notify DTE more accurately about small-scale power outages. Also to implement the UN's New World Order mind control rays --- oops, never mind that last one!

zanzerbar

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:27 p.m.

I ask a DTE worker what the letters stood for, he said " Don't Trust Edison "......

jns131

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:12 p.m.

And this my dears, is how they get away with charging us more then what we really owe. I did not want it and yet they forced this on me. I was told just recently that I did not have to have my meters changed and was told mine was just fine. I was threatened with shut off notices and so forth and yet they use scare tactics to scare us into believing what ever they want us to believe. DTE is another word for big brother is watching you.

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:39 a.m.

The links that I posted (is there a reason why we still can't imbed clickable links here?) make it pretty clear....we need to be sure that we do not count on the Michigan "Public Service" Commission for any sort of concern for the citizens of Michigan. Regardless of how you feel about these meters, never assume MPSC is looking out for us. They are the rubber stamp for DTE. I don't know anything about the safety of these meters.....but I know I'd never believe anything that the MPSC told me. Just sayin'.....

llspier

Tue, May 1, 2012 : 2:33 a.m.

EMF may not be the only danger with these meters: ever since I had a new digital meter installed, I've been having odd electrical problems-and lights and appliances burning out. Then I noticed the recent rash of fires in the area about the same time as this major push to install these meters-most of them in older outbuildings, like barns and shops.. Something made me start looking for a link . . . I found many, many reports of fires likely started by these meters. Often it is blamed on improper installation but most power companies do not require their installers to be trained. Quality control on the meter manufacture also doesnt appear to be happening. This video out of the UK shows just one of these meters going up in a ball of flames: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXfIY6mfWWc&feature=youtu.be But other reports say it can cause arcing in older wiring-in which case, the fire likely wont be attributed to the meter at all. That may be a plus-as if a fire is caused by the meter, your insurance likely wont pay off as it was caused by the power company. Can you imagine how long it would take to get a settlement out of them-since they wont want to admit responsibility? Meanwhile, I've called an electrician to see if he can figure it out before the worst happens!

YpsiVeteran

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:50 p.m.

Exactly. MPSC is nothing but a shill for the utilities. They are, in fact paid for by the utilities they purport to regulate. The utilities are allowed by Michigan law to then pass the costs assessed them by the legislature on to Michigan rate payers.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:44 a.m.

good post.

SonnyDog09

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:31 a.m.

I'm more concerned with whether the transmissions between the smart meter and its home are properly secured and encrypted. When I asked that question about the a2 smart water meter, the a2 utility drones could not answer.

DonBee

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:04 a.m.

ChrisW - None of the DTE meters have the right switch in them to turn off your power. It is not included in the meter. So that is a non-issue.

Subroutine

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 9:58 p.m.

I think the concern should be less about the end user's privacy (though that is of some concern) and more about the security of the electrical grid itself. If these smart meters are connected in any way to the network controlling our electrical grid infrastructure, it is conceivable that malicious code could be transmitted through these meters. Interesting reading on the subject: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/smart-grids-done-smartly/

ChrisW

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:23 p.m.

Smart Meters have been hacked. The big concern would be whether someone could turn off your service remotely. Realistically, though, 99% of the hacks are by homeowners cheating on their bills. The RF nonsense is crazy - TV and radio stations broadcast tens of thousands of watts and nobody gets hurt. Cell phone signals, WiFi, and cordless phone signals are essentially everywhere in the developed world.

Brad

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:20 p.m.

My concern with having a secure communications channel is that someone could theoretically hack in and determine if anyone was home or not. That's a legit concern.

Basic Bob

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:15 p.m.

The police can hack your meter and monitor your electricity usage for the telltale 12-hour grow lamp cycle.

Craig Lounsbury

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:07 p.m.

don't take this as an insult SonnyDog, but what is the concern? that a "hacker" somewhere would know how much electricity or water you use? I guess I wonder why anyone would care? Or how that information could be to their advantage?

SonnyDog09

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:34 p.m.

You misunderstood my question, racerx. I wanted assurances that only the a2 utility department could read the data that the meter was sending. Is the data properly encrypted before it is transmitted? Or, is it being sent in the clear and we are just hoping that nobody else reads it? I also wanted assurances that the meter would only respond to commands from the a2 utility department (if it had that capability...the drones did not know). I have similar security concerns regarding the dte smart meters. I have no concerns about "teh evul rads from teh meter." That notion is non-sense.

racerx

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:23 p.m.

@SonnyDog09-if you're concerned that the smart meter for your water meter is "properly secured and encrypted" just look at the numbers on your water meter and compare it to the usage numbers on your water bill. These same numbers will match and you're still able to manually watch your water consumption. Maybe the A2 utility drones couldn't answer the question because it really isn't one.

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:41 a.m.

Sonny, Good point. And WHO do we depend on for honest information in that regard? That's a problem.

Keith Hood

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:27 a.m.

You would have to be exposed to smart meter RF frequencies for 1000 years to get the same amount of RF exposure received from a month of cell phone usage. Also, the meters have shielding in at the rear of the meter. The RF emissions get further baffling at the rear of the meter from the building materials such as brick, wood, plaster, drywall, etc. As has been noted any RF exposure is minimal and you actually need to be standing directly in front of the meter to get even minimal RF exposure. And though it is somewhat different, haven't we had radio and television waves going through us for decades?

motorcycleminer

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:08 a.m.

You can't fix stupid.........wait till RF tags and auto check out come to supermarkets and they'll starve....

1bit

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:03 a.m.

It's easy. If you on't want the meters, get your electricity from someone or somewhere else.

1bit

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 5:05 p.m.

Start your own. Buy a generator. Whatever. You don't have a right to have electricity.

johnnya2

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:36 p.m.

So where does one get this? DTE has a MONOPOLY. I would love to get rid of DTE for other reasons, but there is not way to do that when only one company provides the service.

1bit

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:04 a.m.

Should be "don't want the meters".

15crown00

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11 a.m.

if current meters are sop bad how have so masny people lived so long with them?this "smart meter" sounds like another PC move to me.either that or a company looking to squeeze the consumer.

yaah

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:54 a.m.

Are these people serious? "Electromagnetic sensitivity" is nonsense. The proliferation of non-evidence based scientific opinions is truly distressing in this day and age.

DonBee

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:02 a.m.

maureen - Microwaves are close to the natural frequency of water at 2,450 megahertz. This has an impact on the water in food, which is what makes it warm. Move more than about 200 megahertz from this frequency and the water ignores the radio frequency. The smart meters are close 900 megahertz, more than 1,400 megahertz off the microwave frequency. A very different frequency, in that same 900 megahertz range are: Cell phones, baby monitors, and walkie talkies.

Jake C

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:48 p.m.

@maureen: All sorts of things are harmless at low levels, yet harmful at extremely high levels. Comparing a water meter than transmits data at a low power level for ~100 seconds per day against some Cold War-era radiation weapon, is like comparing the engine that powers your car to a nuclear bomb.

maureen

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 7:30 p.m.

Microwave technology has been around since the 1920's and has been used by governments since then. During the Cold War, the Russians blasted the US Embassy with low level radio frequency microwave radiation (the same kind we use now in cell phones, wifi, smart meters, etc.) making everyone working in the embassy sick. Most of the Americans died or got cancer. A new group came in to replace the sick and dying and the same thing happened to them. Now we are using this microwave technology as if it has no consequences. The research is readily available. Learn more by watching youtube videos of Dr. Madga Havas. Also, Barrie Trower, a retired British military physicist who worked with microwave radio frequency since the 1960's and was one of the key players in the Russian embassy case, is interviewed and is on youtube. Microwave radiation is not harmless.

just a voice

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 6:20 p.m.

Dr Darren Schmidt, here is your CV from your website; What is your education or professional work experience? Chiropractors and Certified Masters in Nutrition Response Training so, yah, not a real doctor imho

Plubius

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:32 p.m.

in response to CincoDeMayo : This is rejected for the same reason that talk about a flat earth is rejected - both are totally nonsensical.

CincoDeMayo

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 2:39 p.m.

Chudate, Good point. But one that only adds to the concern for those who are worried about it. Look how many times and how much exposure people are being subjected to at "low doses". It appears harmless, but why is everyone in such a hurry to dismiss even exploring the concern? Convenience? It's odd that convenience would trump health concerns, and analytically based research before pressing ahead.

Chudate

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:27 p.m.

Agreed, yaah. If there was such a thing in today's world, the person wouldn't be able to walk down any street or enter into any store. Since Gerler is clearly clothed in the photo above, I'm guessing she makes it out and about on occasion. Not buying a made up condition.

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:12 p.m.

yaah, Have you got evidence they are safe? Seriously. I'd like to read about the human studies proving smart meters are safe.

Dr. Darren Schmidt

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:46 a.m.

I suggest you read the two books mentioned in the article.

Cash

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:53 a.m.

This article isn't really complete without the mention of the MPSC approval of a rate increase for these meters, ruled to be unsupported. This issue puts a different light on what the MPSC had done and what is happening now. http://energy.aol.com/2012/04/16/no-go-appeals-court-balks-at-dte-rate-hike-for-smart-meters/ Also it makes one wonder if the MPSC, trying to improve it's image, didn't open this "study" knowing that the court was going to take them to task for their hasty approval of the meter rate increase. http://www.freep.com/article/20120411/NEWS06/120411033/Appeals-court-DTE-Energy-smart-meters

mr_annarbor

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:53 a.m.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most water meters are in people's basements. If the meters only transmit for 100 seconds every day, as the story says, then the RF exposure danger is very minimal. If any of the folks lobbying against these meters use a cell phone, then they're getting much, much more exposure from those phones than they are from the meters.

Bob W

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:51 a.m.

Walker, not so. Water meters atleast in all the older homes are not outside they are in temp controlled spaces usually the basement. I was home when the installer required access to install it. Lets stick with facts.

walker101

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 10:15 a.m.

The difference between a water meter and a smart meter is that most water meters are out in the sidewalk or away from the house (almost all are in other states). These are planted on your wall next to your living quarters. DTE gave no one a choice, they railroaded this project like the government is trying with Obamacare, both will have devastating consequences.

grimmk

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 3:26 a.m.

I love how you just threw down the gauntlet with "Obamacare". It's like comparing apples to unicorns. But you do it just so we don't look at the "real" problem and just start talking about how American health care sucks and heaven forbid we care for each other. That's just crazy talk! Oh, look, now I'm running off on a tangent. Wish granted.

Middle America

Mon, Apr 30, 2012 : 12:31 a.m.

B. HUSSEIN OBAMA and DTE are working together to take away our RIGHTS!

jcj

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 11:33 p.m.

walker101 You better take a class in plumbing 101! Your post is why few people take environmentalist seriously! Misinformation and exaggerations will not accomplish anything in the long run.

Left is Right

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 4:18 p.m.

My gosh. Where do you get your information? Have you checked your basement? External water meters would freeze here. Do you have a cell phone? Probably a lot more power in that transmitter.

jns131

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 1:16 p.m.

Finally, someone I can totally agree with. Walker is right on the money. This is what the installer told me when we were forced to have a new meter installed in our home. He said the 50 year old model was still in great shape should not have needed to be replaced. But if he wanted to keep his job? He had to do what he was told to do.

TinyArtist

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:48 p.m.

My water meter is not in another state -- it's in my basement.

racerx

Sun, Apr 29, 2012 : 12:17 p.m.

@walker101, incorrect. The water meter is placed inside your home and the transmitter for it is on the meter, inside your home, typically in the basement where the water meter is located. Yup. Blame Obamacare. These are the same issues that the city of A2 Water Dept. addressed when the radio transmitter were being placed on water meters. If you live in A2 and own a home, please dotell what devastating consequences have you encountered...I'll wait for it.