Ann Arbor Public Schools: Does tailgating and drinking take precedence over school functions?
This morning, I went to drop my son off at his varsity tennis tournament at Pioneer High School and I was dismayed at the lack of respect for the players, the coaches and parents displayed by the Ann Arbor Public Schools.
The Pioneer men's varsity tennis schedule is obviously set well before the beginning of each school year and it is well known that on pretty much every Saturday during the varsity tennis season Pioneer hosts a tennis tournament inviting teams from all over the state of Michigan. The Pioneer team shows up at 7:30 a.m. with the other teams arriving between 8 and 8:30 a.m. The tournament can run all day and with rain delays can run into early evening. The teams are comprised of 12 varsity players and approximately 4-6 alternates. Many teams will bring small tables, chairs and awnings, as it's an all-day event. The tennis courts are on the south side of the school, accessible most directly from 7th Street.
This morning, all of the parking spaces immediately adjacent to the tennis courts was consumed by University of Michigan football fans. The parking lot immediately next to the tennis had RVs filling it with "tailgating" tents set up. As the day goes on, the Pioneer parking lot will be filled more and more with football fans.


(Which of course brings up the question about consumption of alcohol on public school grounds: Is this ordinance suspended during games? Do the police just turn a blind eye so that some dollars can be made?)


Exactly where are the parents of Pioneer players and the visiting tennis teams supposed to park? Exactly where are the tennis teams supposed to set up their team tents? If there is indeed alcohol being consumed on public school grounds, should it be done so close to students, especially while they are participating in a school-related function? Why have the Ann Arbor Public Schools put their own students last? Is this really the message to send to our students and community? Exactly what is the policy about displacing school related activities in these situations and who is responsible for making this policy?
Robert C. Welsh
Ann Arbor
Comments
swcornell
Mon, Sep 26, 2011 : 3:49 a.m.
I agree with the part of this article about the police turning a blind eye to the public drinking and intoxication laws. Every week after the game the news reports a handful of alcohol related arrests. I've been to games and have even worked at one of the parking/tailgating lots across from the big house. It absolutely amazes me the blatant number of laws being broken. And it's considered acceptable.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:40 p.m.
@Robert: Who is the bully? Gotta love the usual suspects who insist on blaming the U for this. The U is not forcing PHS or AAPS to do anything. They are free to do whatever they want in this issue. They choose to sell spots in their parking lots and make a tidy sum for so doing (A little more than $1 million/year). If PHS wants to sell fewer spots so as to reserve some for its own use at its sporting events, it is free to do so. There's a simple choice here: reduce parking revenue by setting aside some spaces for the Pioneer athletic event, or don't do so and force event participants and spectators to park somewhere else. In any event, the U is not the problem here. The issue is the policy adopted by PHS and the AAPS. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Tue, Sep 27, 2011 : 1:21 a.m.
Thanks, LC, for the kind words. GN&GL
L. C. Burgundy
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 11:30 p.m.
Ed, I don't often agree with you, but you are 100% correct on this one. I am personally interested in knowing how much Mr. Welsh is willing to donate to AAPS to reserve parking for the tennis matches. That'll be $40 a spot, Mr. Welsh, or you can suggest to the school board what they should cut to offset a loss in revenue from not having football parking (surely not tennis!).
mike gatti
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 11:48 a.m.
This has probably been exacerbated by the fact the the University of Michigan no longer seems to play away games. of their 12 games this year (if you count womping and WMU and EMU, etc. games) only 4 are away. They used to play 11 games and 5 were away. At least they did in the years I checked 1980,90 and 2000. Seems to be a trend in College Football to play as weak possible non-conference schedule and stay home as much as possible. They play more games, added teams to the big ten and only play 8 conference games. I don't get it. Though now I am getting to a tangent. Why doesn't U of M let Pioneer play at their beautiful tennis complex on home game days?
Anonymous
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 7:07 p.m.
Obviously UM isn't calling the shots when Pioneer gets to host a Saturday tournament each week in September. The parents, the AD, and the team know there's a fb game and yet for years they choose to host this tournament. Not sure they have any right to complain. @Murrow, tennis themselves bring in $0 revenue. So the likeliness of them bringing in $2850, which is the 1 percent you quote that the entire AAPS system brings in at ALL venues. Really?
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:48 p.m.
Who is the bully? The AAPS is doing this voluntarily and making $1 million/year while doing it. Nothing requires it to sell parking spots on game days. So who is the bully? GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:30 p.m.
@anonymous: Calling all the shots, hum, sounds like U of M football is actually calling all of the shots. They could reserve some of the parking for Pioneer home sports. Bully : A person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker
thecompound
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
Not really sure what the other replies have to do with your post, but that is an interesting thought--UM letting Pioneer using their facilities on game days. I agree with those who say the Pioneer AD is the one who really should be answering to all these problems.
Ed Murrow
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:27 p.m.
"...When Pioneer tennis is televised national and can bring in even a quarter of the revenue that the UM parking does..." Last year A2 schools generated $285k in gate receipts for ALL sport combined. Parking at Pioneer generated $1 million. If tennis generated even 1% of the parking revenue I would entertain their complaint.
Anonymous
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 12:43 p.m.
Seriously?!? When Pioneer tennis is televised national and can bring in even a quarter of the revenue that the UM parking does then they may earn the right to an opinion. Pioneer tennis bring very little to the community except the 30 or so players and their privileged families. They can easily have these tournaments anywhere else in the city. The ad is so afraid of offending brick and the priviledged parents/children that they get to call the shots. How pathetic.
KJMClark
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 11:48 a.m.
If there isn't enough parking, sounds like they should raise the parking rates. And RVs, being much larger than cars, should pay two to four times the rate for car parking anyway. You take four spots, you pay four times the price. Seems like we always throw out basic free-market principles when it comes to our socialist road network. Murrow points out the schools make $1 million per year on parking. Notice too that they're planning an 8% increase this year, and projecting a 9% increase next year. Maybe they're already working on raising those rates - good for them. They should raise the rates of *all* of their lots until they're 95% full at events. I was just at the Skyline football game. The parking lot was overflowing onto the drives around the building. They could have made a fortune charging $1 per car, and no one would have batted an eye.
KJMClark
Mon, Sep 26, 2011 : 6:19 p.m.
Those are season passes. Most of the parking is not taken by people with season passes. I do agree that they charge 5x the price for RVs, so they're doing fine there. The question is not whether their prices are high compared to other parking, it's whether they're maximizing their revenue. It's in the public interest for them to maximize their revenue. If their parking lot is that full, they probably should be charging more until they have a small number of spots open. Of course, they should also be charging the tennis parking the same rates.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 1:03 p.m.
A season parking pass for an automobile is $320, or $40/game A season pass for an RV is $1600, or $200/game. Source: <a href="http://www.michiganeventparking.com/index.php?cPath=31&osCsid=uqvnmn12enjtkfi5rfnho0d410" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michiganeventparking.com/index.php?cPath=31&osCsid=uqvnmn12enjtkfi5rfnho0d410</a> They are the highest rates in the stadium area. Neither of the golf courses charge as much. GN&GL
FredMax
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:24 a.m.
Once I was detoured 60 miles to get past the I-94 exchange on Ann Arbor Saline road. Learn to take football saturday planning as a challenge, it may even turn out to be fun. You have no choice anyways if you want to live here.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 12:59 p.m.
Baloney. Pure baloney. Good Night and Good Luck
a2citizen
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:58 a.m.
60 miles? I really have a hard time believing your claim.
kms
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 12:25 a.m.
Mr Welsh raises some excellent points. Pioneer athletes and parents are significantly affected by having restricted access to their own school for their own events during home UM football and basketball games. What really bothered me most however, was when my softball player daughter was chased down by someone in the Pioneer athletic department who demanded she pay $5 to park her car in the lot near her practice field. Seriously, charging students extra money to park when they already have to pay for an annual parking fee permit is just unconscionable. I was one of many parents who complained about this policy...not sure if they continue to do this.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 12:25 a.m.
Want to have priority in parking? Pony up the $1 million in the school budget that the AAPS gets for UM parking. Yes. $1 million. <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a> Check page 3 under "Other Local Sources" Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 5:49 p.m.
Welcome to the reductio ad absurdum argument. The fact is, dearest Robert, that the AAPS CHOOSES to make $1 million per year off of the Michigan football and basketball games. If you don't like that choice, communicate your to your elected school board members along with suggestions about where to it ought cut another $1 million from the budget. GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:27 p.m.
Then we might as well have the high school students going around selling beer as well and make even more money. I have looked at that and am aware, but maybe, just maybe they could hold some of the parking in reserve. There is no reason why the two can't coexist.
a2girl
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 11:52 p.m.
Is it really the case that Pioneer hosts that many teams EVERY Saturday? That seems somewhat excessive. Why would you even want to compete with football parking? How long has this been going on? Is it a problem this year because of UM's unusual home game schedule (ie. all home games through Sept.)? Perhaps Huron or Skyline should be hosting these events on home game Saturdays. Or if Pioneer is set on hosting these events, they might consider moving them to Sunday.
Robert
Mon, Sep 26, 2011 : 2:02 p.m.
They actually traveled this past Saturday to Grosse Pointe Liggett, so indeed they don't host tournaments every Saturday at home and they certainly travel during the week for dual matches. Part of the reason for holding tournaments at Pioneer is that number of courts which can support a tournament in a reasonable amount of time. As for the cost, I can't speak for the details of the budget, but we definitely pay fees to play as well as provide all team food.
a2citizen
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 10:49 p.m.
"...How long has this been going on?.. " Well, Michigan Stadium opened for business in 1927. Pioneer opened in 1950's. I guess when high school tennis started generating millions. 50, 60 years, maybe.
a2girl
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 6:24 p.m.
Robert- It doesn't sound like they are hosting home games every weekend, but home tournaments. There is a big difference in the amount of parking that is required for a dual match and a tournament. So it is the "tournament" aspect of the events that seems excessive. Also, don't other schools host teams on Saturdays? It sounds like the Pioneer team isn't interested in traveling on Saturdays. What a nice convenience for them. Gosh, I wonder who is paying for all these events. They must cost something. Maybe the parents of the Pioneer players should be thankful that their kids don't have to travel on Saturdays and stop complaining that they have this privilege. Also, FYI, Huron hosted their home football games at Pioneer for almost 30 years. Oh horrors.
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:25 p.m.
Why is it excessive for a successful team to hold home games at home? Or for that matter any team to be able to hold their home games at home. Using your own arguments then U of M should go and hold their games at Eastern.
Ron Granger
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 11:21 p.m.
Your kids play tennis on that court because of our tax dollars paying for the team. So if those of us who pay those bills need to park in the public school parking lot a few times a year, I hope you'll excuse us. (burp)
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:24 p.m.
We all pay taxes AND we also pay extra fees for our kids to play sports at the high schools. There is no reason to not be able to hold some of the parking in reserve.
mike gatti
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 11:51 a.m.
Doesn't she pay taxe?. Does that mean you go into hospitals and remind sick people that your taxes pay for their medicare and if you need their IV then excuse you? Do you go to charities you support and demand that they thank you?
longtime AA
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 10:19 p.m.
Mr. Welsh does make some good points. I would think that the parking lot adjacent to the courts should/could be reserved for the tennis parents. At the same time, it is nice that the AA schools have the parking as a source of income, particularly in this time of the State cutting its contributions to the school districts each year. While I know that Pioneer likes having home matches every Saturday (do you know of any other athletic team anywhere that has all its matches at home?), one solution may be in using the courts at either Huron or Skyline on those Saturdays when those teams are not using their courts. After all, the courts and property at Pioneer doesn't belong to Pioneer, but belongs to the AA School District. Why let some courts sit idle when they could be used, and while Pioneer is used to help the AA school's financial situation? I'll bet even Saline (with 18 courts) or Dexter (with 16 courts) would occasionally lend their courts to Pioneer.Some of Pioneer's opponents might even like not always having to fight football traffic.
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:20 p.m.
Just like U of M likes to have their home games at home and not hosted at Eastern Michigan, Pioneer students too should be able to enjoy the same feeling. I'm sure that the U of M athletes would applaud the high schoolers being able to play at their own home. Simple solution is to reserve some of the parking for tennis. It's doesn't take much to make a workable solution.
Random Man
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.
Is Pioneer that high school that was built next too the parking lot at the stadium? Heck Ithought their only sport was running a band camp in the summer and picking up pop bottles in the fall.
a2grateful
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 8:23 p.m.
Set aside the parking issue for a moment, as that can easily be solved. My intuition is that the visiting teams and their families love the atmosphere of PiHi on game day. It's the crusty, musty, old Ann Arborites that have their bloomers in a knot. ; )
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 10:14 p.m.
"Definitely they can set aside some parking." Game Day Parking is $40/car. How many spots do you want Robert? You going to pay to fill the hole in the budget? GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:18 p.m.
Definitely they can set aside some parking. It doesn't take much to make this a workable solution. And high schoolers like to have their "home" games as much as U of M athletes. The two can coexist and accommodations can be made.
a2citizen
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 8:36 p.m.
Excellent observation.
a2citizen
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:49 p.m.
Now that the game is over I guess I will go watch a high school tennis match. errr, wait....I'd rather watch paint dry.
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 8:08 p.m.
when you get bored with the paint try watching the grass grow....not much time left for that one.
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:13 p.m.
As I look at page 17 of the pdf link below it appears the AAPS budget forecast anticipates over a million dollars a year from "the parking project" which as near as I can figure is mostly, though not entirely, football parking receipts <a href="http://a2pioneer.org/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://a2pioneer.org/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a>
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 10:17 p.m.
" It shouldn't be about (income) money all of the time." Maybe you hadn't noticed, Robert, but the AAPS had millions cut from its state funding this year. There is little in the AAPS, then, that isn't about money. But I'm certain you can fill in the gap for all of the spots to be used by the tennis team for its home matches. How many car slots at $40/slot can you cover? GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:16 p.m.
We pay fees to play tennis, as do pretty much all of the sports. It shouldn't be about (income) money all of the time. Indeed I'm sure that many of the U of M athletes themselves came from public school systems in which their sports teams were subsidized by federal, state and/or local taxes.
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:59 p.m.
I wonder how much of that comes from tennis? ;)
a2citizen
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:25 p.m.
Just read that myself Craig. Did you notice AAPS only received $285k in gate receipts for all athletic competitions combined.
Joy Bash
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:01 p.m.
I've heard that U of M sold that property to the schools and a deal went with that sale for U of M to use that property for tailgating. School event's should be on a schedule so this doesn't happen.
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:14 p.m.
Have any actual hard reference for that, else it's just hearsay. And why should the high schools always have to be on a separate schedule. Reserving some of the parking for home events for the high schools is not really that difficult to do. The two things can co-exist. It's doesn't have to be one or the other.
TC
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:47 p.m.
The people have spoken. A2 citizens clearly believe that high school activities are less important that what happens at the Big House. Hail, hail.
Tesla
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:45 p.m.
I have nothing much to contribute but wanted to say that you have a real good beef there Mr. Welsh and Laurel that was a great post.
thecompound
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:44 p.m.
Wow aa.com, way to leave up that offensive/sexist remark, and I don't even necessarily agree with Laurel.
a2citizen
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:27 p.m.
Laurel needs to meet a Michigan Man.
Laurel
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:19 p.m.
The U brings in so much blah, blah, blah. (hassle, traffic, offensive drunkards...) They've got by for a long time contributing the bare minimum and they keep asking for more while expecting the entire town to make accommodations for them. The U isn't paying for the inconvenience they cause,(where's my share?) The people who come into town are paying for themselves. The U should have extra fees attributed to go to the schools if there is going to be this level of inconvenience, inconsideration and negligence. PiHi has more to offer than many other area high schools and therefore can accommodate the varying tournaments they host. Maybe the U needs to create their own tailgating spot. They can continue to rape their patrons financially and staff it themselves. Or they can pay up accordingly and put some of their revenue towards area schools that are lacking funds. It takes money to make money and they've been rolling in the dough forever. AAPS and their students should take precedence over disrespectful, littering persons engaging in mass conspicuous consumption. When people are as drunk and disorderly, as many become from tailgating, we should take action. Is it any surprise that high school kids engage in less than savory behavior? Look at the lessons they're taught from the get go just from being a part of the whole Ann Arbor college-town community.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 5:47 p.m.
Yes, Laurel, this town would be so much better w/o the UofM. Kinda like Flint w/o the closed auto factories. GN&GL
local
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 12:18 p.m.
The U as you put it brings in a dump load for this area, jobs being the big one. And football Saturdays bring big bucks to businesses that many need and want. If we took away the U, this area would be a shell of itself. AAPS just built a beautiful new high school that these tournaments could be played at. And if you don't like the inconvenience of living in a college town like Ann Arbor, then move. When you decide to live in Ann Arbor and have your kids go to these schools in the area, this is what takes place.
a2citizen
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:24 p.m.
"Maybe the U needs to create their own tailgating spot" They have. It's called Ann Arbor. Last year AAPS has $285,000 in gate receipts for all athletic competitions combined. Last year AAPS received $1,000,000 in parking receipts at Pioneer. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/aaps/budget/other_budget-related_information" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/aaps/budget/other_budget-related_information</a>
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:12 p.m.
Maybe the the Pioneer AD needs to be fired for continually allowing high school tennis to schedule in direct conflict with Michigan football. Its not a good idea to step in front of a moving bus even if you have the right of way.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 5:46 p.m.
Laurel and Bob: The two of you are such broken records. AAPS does not have to sell parking at UM games. It does so voluntarily and makes $1 million/year doing so. So who is the bully in this story? GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:11 p.m.
Bully : A person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker I'd be interested to know the U of M athletes opinion on this. How would they feel if they were not allowed to play their home games at home, but were required to be hosted at Eastern. The parking project would reserve some spaces for home events for Pioneer. And indeed we have picked our battle and maybe it should not always be about money and being rude, but doing the right thing and demonstrating to our kids that they are not to be marginalized, else they may become bullies one day themselves.
say it plain
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 10:43 p.m.
I too agree with Craig, even as I am sympathetic to the views Laurel expresses here! UM Football is just something all of Ann Arbor has to work around, always has been. Really, scheduling *anything* in town can be problematic, just for the driving/parking hassles anywhere near the stadium or the routes into and out of town! The AAPS makes money from this parking in a big way, so they are in no position to say no to it. But they spend that money on three ADs! Thus, the one at Pioneer should have ample time and energy to work things out for the Pioneer tennis team and any other teams who would be affected by UM Football's home games. And they should tell us how much money the varsity tennis program spends to host these events too ;-)
Sallyxyz
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 8:59 p.m.
I'm with Craig on this one. Regardless of what anyone believes, UM's football Saturdays will trump all other events scheduled those days.
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:06 p.m.
pick your battles. pick your battles High school tennis will never trump a million dollar parking business
Laurel
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:20 p.m.
Bow and submit. Bow and submit. What happened to creating a better environment for all? Yes, even on football Saturdays.
snoopdog
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 5:39 p.m.
"Why have the Ann Arbor Public Schools put their own students last?" I understand your asking this question Robert but you already know the answer. U of M football saturdays bring in tens of thousands of dollars for the school system and these dollars feed the union beasts. Of course alcohol consumption sets a very poor example for the kids but if it were banned, no one would park there. I feel bad for the tennis team and the lack of available parking and space to set up their tents, this makes the Pioneers look really really bad for the visiting schools. Good Day
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 5:45 p.m.
OK, Laurel. I've posted it elsewhere, but since you insist: <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a> Check page 3 under "Other Local Sources". Yep. It's there. One Million Dollars from parking revenue. GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:07 p.m.
They could reserve some of that space for the tennis team. That would be a very simple solution. They SHOULD be able to coexist. If U of M can have their home games at home instead of being hosted at Eastern or Wayne St, then so should the high school students. Indeed I'm sure if you surveyed the U of M athletes they themselves would 100% agree with the importance of being able to play at home. As for the alcohol. Actually it is : <a href="http://www.michiganeventparking.com/rules.php" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michiganeventparking.com/rules.php</a> "Ann Arbor City, State and Federal law prohibits possession of open intoxicants and the consumption of alcoholic beverages on school district property." Blind eyes to make some money. Quite sad.
DonBee
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 11:52 a.m.
Ms. Laurel - The number, according to the AAPS budget, is more than $1 million dollars. The audit document when it appears will have the real number (I hope).
Anonymous
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 10:29 p.m.
Snoopdog, what do you do for a living? I'd love to have some equal time to bash your career on a daily basis! I'm so tired your comments on here dogging teachers. You don't have a clue what it's like to be a teacher, not a clue!!
Goober
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 9:20 p.m.
It does not "all go to Pioneer;" the parking revenue goes to the AAPS general fund.
zigziggityzoo
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:46 p.m.
It costs $40 per car space, $200 per RV space. They park about 600 cars and something like 120 RVs. That's $48,000 PER FOOTBALL SATURDAY, all goes to Pioneer.
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:04 p.m.
Laurel, the money from parking at Pioneer goes to the Ann Arbor Public schools and it is a million dollar business. Don't trust me look it up in the Ann Arbor public school financial ifo available on line
TC
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:51 p.m.
Feed the union beasts? Really? Blame this problem on the teachers too? Be serious.
Laurel
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:22 p.m.
Tens of thousands for the school system"... Hmm, I'd like to see the real numbers. City funds are not = to School system funds
johnnya2
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 5:39 p.m.
1. The football schedule is set years in advance. The tennis one not so much 2. Without the MONEY from the football parking, tennis would be a sport that could end up being cut. Which would you prefer? 3. A high school student can not handle seeing people use alcohol? I guess you never take your kid to a restaurant that serves alcohol. You never take them to Meijer (which sells alcohol), you never take them to a professional sporting event, you never have a drop of alcohol at home. 4. If other teams travel to Pioneer for tennis matches, why don;t they just travel to other high schools instead? Take it up with the AD and coach of the tennis team. There are also the day right after Saturday available for this EXTRA curricular activity. The Pioneer football team does not play their home games on Saturday afternoons of UM home games.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Mon, Sep 26, 2011 : 5:35 p.m.
. . .and that has been figured into the budget, a school budget that has had millions cut from it. So, again, how much money are YOU willing to pony up for those parking spots? Or, in the alternative, what cuts should be made? Surely nothing that will impact YOUR children. GN&GL
Robert
Mon, Sep 26, 2011 : 1:49 p.m.
Well, given that apparently U of M has more home games now then in the past it seems that the extra revenue should already be there to make up for reserving some space for the sports teams.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 10:21 p.m.
Gee, so you only want the budget to be shorted $100,000? Any recommendation how to make up that shortfall? Or will you simply donate it to the AAPS? GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 9:04 p.m.
@ Edward What the AA.com did not record in my letter was that it was actually directed at Superintendent Green, The Board of Education, Principal White of Pioneer and the Athletic Department, the City Council and the Mayor. It was also cc'd to the Ann Arbor News. So indeed I did send it to the people that needed to hear about it. But we also live in a society of open communication and so it was also appropriate to bring this up in a public and (supposedly) civil forum such as the Ann Arbor News. The parking project could set aside some of the spots for the high school sporting events. Simple as that. It doesn't have to be $1M or nothing, it could be $0.9M instead (as a guess).
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 5:43 p.m.
@Robert: It's all a moot point. If the AAPS wanted to it could end all of this tomorrow--just quit making $1 million per year on parking. But that's a fact you and Laurel keep conveniently ignoring in your bashing of the U. The U does not control the AAPS parking at Pioneer. Don't like how the AAPS runs ITS parking facilities? I suggest you contact the school board. GN&GL
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:03 p.m.
@Johnny A2 : Your Point 1: And so, should U of M always trump a high school. Sounds like the word "bully" should be used here. Your Point 2: Actually a lot of the parents in a lot of the sports are paying for their kids to play. So your point 2 is not fully valid. Second, they could reserve just a fraction of the parking for the tennis. Maybe it should NOT always be about money but doing the right thing and setting good examples to our kids so that they know they are NOT being marginalized. Your Point 3 : First rule from the "Michigan Event Parking": <a href="http://www.michiganeventparking.com/rules.php" rel='nofollow'>http://www.michiganeventparking.com/rules.php</a> "Ann Arbor City, State and Federal law prohibits possession of open intoxicants and the consumption of alcoholic beverages on school district property." Your point 4. They do, but just like the University of Michigan, Pioneer Tennis ALSO likes to have home games. You logic of 4 dictates that U of M should just have their "home" games hosted at Eastern. Additionally, the match that was most displaced was the one played during the Notre Dame game. The tennis match started at 8am, the football game 12 HOURS later. There is no reason that people needed to start drinking at 8am right next to the tennis courts. Laurel in her comments was quite accurate on her descriptions.
DonBee
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 11:50 a.m.
jrigglem - AAPS makes more than $1 million dollars in parking fees from U of M home games. This goes into the general fund. Pioneer has pay to play like the other schools. AAPS spends over $3 million a year from the general fund on varsity athletics, plus in the last year more than $6 million from the sinking fund and the bond fund. Plus a secret amount of booster money. Plus money from the general fund to pay for maintenance of varsity athletic only facilities, plus general fund money to pay for overtime for custodian, plus money for buses to away games, plus.... you get the idea. AAPS needs every penny they can get to try to be the High School equivalent of the U of M in sports. In some cases AAPS has sports that fewer than a dozen of the 500 school districts in the state have.
jrigglem
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 11:44 p.m.
WHy is Pioneer even relying on the payment from parking. DOn't they have to pay to play like every other school district?
thecompound
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 9:15 p.m.
So it's also cool then for parents to take cocktails to their next parent/teacher conferences, capsule nights, school plays etc....? Great!
ypsicalling
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 7:53 p.m.
To your point 3: yes, true; but how often are there so MANY people using so MUCH alcohol -- I shudder to think of the possibility of lewd comments being made to a female HS tennis player. As an A2 cab driver I know all too well the general behavior displayed during home game weekends.
Laurel
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:25 p.m.
Mass conspicuous consumption is different than a cocktail with dinner. Clearly you're not familiar with the behavior of these tailgaters. Watching people acting belligerent, urinating on lawns and themselves as if they're all reverting to the college frat days, is not like a night out to dinner... At least not within a more sophisticated society. I've seen the pathetic losers firsthand and they're not people I'd want my children regularly observing.
a2citizen
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 5:31 p.m.
Does tailgating and drinking take precedence over school functions? Uhhh.....the answer is yes. Why do you ask? For the AD's planning purposes I have included the 2012, 2013 and 2014 Michigan Football Schedules. Is THIS far enough in advance to plan around? 2014 SCHEDULE Date Opponent Aug 30 Appalachian State Sep 13 TBA Sep 20 TBA Oct 4 Open Oct 11 Michigan State Oct 25 Penn State Nov 1 Iowa Nov 22 Northwestern 2013 SCHEDULE Aug 31 TBA Sep 7 Notre Dame Sep 14 Akron Oct 5 Minnesota Oct19 Indiana Oct 26 Open Nov 9 Nebraska Nov 30 Ohio State 2012 SCHEDULE Sepr 8 Air Force Sep 15 TBA Sep 29 TBA Oct 13 Illinois Oct 20 Michigan State Nov 10 Northwestern Nov 17 Iowa
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 5:38 p.m.
The AAPS makes $1 million/year off of its parking operations. No one is forcing it to do so. It is free to end tailgating and the $1 million payday anytime it wishes to do so. But illogical bashing of the U feels so GOOOOOOOOOD! Good Night and Good Luck
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:54 p.m.
So basically you are saying that the University should continue to have their way 100%. Sounds like bullying to me.
Laurel
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 6:27 p.m.
Yes, we all must bow to the U. Bow and submit. Bow and submit. And while you're bent...
Arborcomment
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 5:04 p.m.
I'd recommend that Pioneer's event be hosted at Huron or Skyline if there is a conflict with M football and your AD can't seem to straighten things out. My parents and/or myself parked there since 1969. This is not an unknown... In addition, if Pioneer students continue the tradition of their scavenger hunts, you can have new nets every year at Huron.
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 9:13 p.m.
Or if they just simply reserved some parking. The tennis season at the high school is short, in fact it starts before the beginning of school in order to fit in enough matches before regional play starts the first week of Oct. And again your own reason for Michigan to have it's game at home and Pioneer to have is invitationals at Pioneer. Skyline has 8 courts, Huron has 8 courts and Pioneer has 12 courts. I know that the Parking Project has a $1M line in the AAPS budget, I'd be interested in know the actual numbers and where the $'s go. Reserving some parking for the home sports for pioneer would not encroach on the revenue all that much. And even if Michigan football has been going on for 50 years does that always mean for things like this to take precedence. Maybe it's time for a little bit of change. Holding some of the parking in reserve is not an impossible solution.
Arborcomment
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 3:37 p.m.
Robert for the following reasons: 1) 110 thousand fans wouldn't fit at EMU. 2) UM stadium pre-dates Pioneer by what 50 years? 3) parking revenues cited above and general economic benefits. And finally, 4) yes they could have these events at Pioneer, if they did some intelligent scheduling.
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:52 p.m.
Taking your logic to conclusion, then why shouldn't U of M just hold their "home" events at Eastern? Pioneer student athletes should be allowed to play their home games at their true home. There is no reason why some space can't be reserved for the tennis team when they have their matches.
local
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 5 p.m.
Football is set in advance as well, so the Pioneer AD needs to make sure high school events don't occur at Pioneer during Michigan home games. I am a huge supporter of high school sports, but the money generated by parking at Pioneer helps these programs to stay in place. The AD needs to do her job, get a Michigan football schedule and schedule accordingly. Just a thought.
Robert
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
@Urban. Should money always talk? At some point we are supposed to do the right thing. Maybe the right thing is to hold some of the Pioneer parking in reserve for Pioneer sports as needed.
Urban Sombrero
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 : 12:22 a.m.
@jrigglem: Money talks, unfortunately.
jrigglem
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 11:42 p.m.
Are you kidding me? I don't think it's much to ask that there be a section closed off for the tennis teams tents and parking for attending parents. Why do tailgaters need the entire parking lot?
Craig Lounsbury
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 4:54 p.m.
"pretty much every Saturday during the varsity tennis season Pioneer hosts a tennis tournament inviting teams from all over the state of Michigan. ..." seems like a bad idea to me. Time to find another place for the weekly tennis match. You need to face the reality that 110,000 people show up to watch the other sport going on across the street. No offense to high school tennis but the fan base is a bit smaller. The money to be made by parking can't be turned down, and if memory serves did not the University donate the land that Pioneer sits on with the understanding that football parking would always be available? I can't swear I read that once upon a time but I think I did.
say it plain
Sat, Sep 24, 2011 : 4:52 p.m.
I think the short answer to the title question is "yes". UM Football takes precedence over *all* other activities in this town, just a fact of life, nothing much to do about it. The AAPS is also short of funds, you may have heard, and needs the revenue from parking at Pioneer for UM home games. Perhaps the athletic director at Pioneeer--one of the 3 we pay to have at AAPS when it seems other districts get by with one for all of their high schools, hmmm--can spend some time and energy organizing info sessions with the kids and parents affected by UM football schedules, and work out some way for it to be a more pleasant experience for everyone involved. I'd start there, in terms of questions for the AAPS--isn't this one of the reasonable duties of the ADs, to make sure parents are alerted to the issues surrounding some weekend/evening activities, and that perhaps alternative arrangements be made to address the reasonable concerns of parents such as Mr. Welsh? And why don't the AAPS while they're at it explain how the ADs and others in the varsity sports programs we spend a lot of money on in this town spend that money?! It is scandalous, imo, that they won't release info about that.