Ann Arbor school administrators ask: How do we cut $14M from next year's budget?
How can the Ann Arbor Public Schools shave another $14 million from its budget?
That’s the question that will be facing the district’s administration and Board of Education over coming months - and the reason AAPS scheduled two public forums in the next week, including one on Thursday.
The district previously has called on parents to participate in forums to discuss budget cuts.
Earlier this year, the district was looking at a deficit of $15- to $21 million. By the start of the school year, AAPS had to trim $16 million from the $183 million budget that the school board passed in June.
This year, the district is looking at a $14 million deficit, according to Robert Allen, deputy superintendent.
That means the district faces yet another year of cost-cutting, which could result in teacher cuts, additional fees and staffing or program adjustments.
“We really are just trying to gather input from the community,” Allen said. That input, he added, “will have huge impact as we move forward.”
Community forums typically are held early in the calendar years, Allen said. This year’s forums are happening before the district compiles a draft budget by January.
“We want the budget to be reflective of what public would like to see,” he said, in terms of what is cut or not cut.
This year’s budget, passed in June, included trimming 62.3 teaching positions and realigning district-wide transportation, a move that caused controversy as the school year started. An effort to realign high sports also drew parent outrage as the changes were announced, then later amended.
So far this year, Allen said, no unanticipated cost increases are striking the district. Health care costs continue to rise an estimated 10 percent per year, he said, and he added that the student count appears to be coming in close to flat.
State funding remains an unknown, he said. The district receives $9,020 in per-pupil funding, but state officials won’t announce until early 2012 what that figure likely will be in the school year that starts the following fall.
“Right now we’re planning on it staying constant,” Allen said.
One cut not likely to happen in the 2012 school year is a building closure, Allen said. That’s a time-consuming process that, on the elementary level, needs to include redrawing district lines, he said.
After the draft budgets are done, the district expects to schedule additional public forums to explore their impact, Allen said. Those meetings should be announced in January.
The forums are scheduled for Thursday, Nov. 10, at Huron High School's Cafeteria and on Monday, Nov. 14 at Pioneer High School's Cafeteria Annex. Both forums start at 6:30p.m.
Comments
15crown00
Thu, Nov 17, 2011 : 7:22 p.m.
bring in Robert Bobb as an efficiency expert.he'll cut,cut,cut until he gets to the desired figure.how ever this means EVERYTHING is on the table Bobb is the guy that was in charge of the Detroit Public School System Short of that have the state appoint an Emergency Manager who has Absolute Authority over Everything.
Steve
Mon, Nov 14, 2011 : 10:43 p.m.
Lot's of ideas to be bantered here. Close Huron and split the students between Pioneer and Skyline. HUGE savings. You'll never recreate Community in a large building and more students. It's like a small company - never the same as it grows. Eliminate busing, few kids ride them anyway. Eliminate the open school program - attend the school in your neighborhood - Make that one better. Limit students to Ann Arbor residents - Pittsfield and Ypsi shouldn't be allowed into AAPS. Fund AAPS more than "The Ride" bus service and Washtenaw county Community College. Sports have been beaten to the core - this is the only place in Michigan where people would cut sports over the arts - no problem with that, but don't target sports. Sports are already almost club anyway - coaching positions eliminated, uniforms that are DECADES old :( - No busing - we pay for that with fund raising!!!!!
andym
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 2:35 p.m.
From the A2 PS 2011-12 budget: "Personnel cost is the single largest expense for the district. Salaries and benefits represent about 88-90% of the general operating budget. ..... Our total employment costs for FY 2011/12 is [sic] about $1.47 for every dollar the District spends on wages." Bottom of page 20 of the pdf (numbered page 6) <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a> For private industry, total employment costs are typically about $1.30 to $1.35 per dollar of wages. The District is clearly above market in terms of benefits. Taking the District down to the high range of market in terms of private sector benefits would result in a savings of: $180M X 12% X 90% = 19.4M Budget problem solved and then some without cuts to schools or programs. BTW, most of the above market benefits goes to pay pensions that none of us in the private sector could ever hope to see.
DonBee
Sat, Nov 12, 2011 : 3:08 a.m.
alarictoo - Contribution by employees is not something the state controls, so more money could come from employee contributions. As to health care plans the ones offered at AAPS are not mandated by the state, so the district could choose different health care plans.
alarictoo
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 10:33 p.m.
@Andym - And those pension costs to the district(s) are mandated by the state. Just like the decrease in education spending.
outdoor6709
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 11:10 p.m.
The problem with our tax system is, it was created after WWII when we were the only game around. Unfortunately we need to modernize our system for generating revenue and we need to be realistic in our expectations of government spending. Change does not seem to be popular with the majority of either party.
outdoor6709
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 11:29 p.m.
Unfortunately someone's ox will be gorred. If we do not expand the job base in the private sector, we will never prosper and cuts will be a way of life forever. The voters can choose next November.
jeff4179
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 7:59 p.m.
Well, I don't care what gets cut, as long as it has no personal impact on me or my two children who are currently in Ann Arbor schools. If it does, then I will show up at forums and complain about how unfair it is.
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 11:07 p.m.
That's how people tend to be, of course, joking aside... So that's why it would be gret if they could make *all budget items* totally transparent and allow for some community-wide polling...the people who show up at these budget forum might not be a 'representative sample' of AAPS constituents...
alarictoo
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 6:36 p.m.
Hmmmm... Wilth Publius' comment it seems we are one, maybe two, steps from an invocation of Godwin's Law. ;^)
Publius the Younger
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 5:29 p.m.
I wouldn't send Osama bin Laden to the AAPS. Close them all!
John Spelling
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 5:19 p.m.
I would like to see a referendum on closing and selling the Community High building. Let the community vote so an end can be put to this endless debate.
hypsi
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 5:11 p.m.
You think losing 14 million is tough to figure out, wait until Snyder's Property Tax idea....it will be alot more then 14 million and from more then just your schools: <a href="http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110814/FREE/308149992/snyder-targets-800m-biz-tax-communities-want-plan-if-personal-property-tax-dies#" rel='nofollow'>http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110814/FREE/308149992/snyder-targets-800m-biz-tax-communities-want-plan-if-personal-property-tax-dies#</a> <a href="http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/892741-264/michigans_library_community_gears_up.html.csp" rel='nofollow'>http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/892741-264/michigans_library_community_gears_up.html.csp</a> <a href="http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20111020/NEWS11/110200375/Slashing-state-revenues-would-hurt-locally?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CRoyal%20Oak%7Cs" rel='nofollow'>http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20111020/NEWS11/110200375/Slashing-state-revenues-would-hurt-locally?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CRoyal%20Oak%7Cs</a>
Plubius
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:29 p.m.
Easy fix - fire administrators.
jns131
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.
Here Here. I totally agree with this one.
bballcoachfballfan
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:06 p.m.
As a coach in the district, I am deeply disturbed by the amount of people saying that cutting athletics is a way to help the budget. I have worked in several public school districts and Ann Arbor, by far and away, allocates the least amount of money to athletics of any district for which I have worked. In basketball, for example, the district pays head coach salary, referees and limited transportation (outside of Washtenaw County). We have to fundraise for everything else--uniforms, basketballs, warm-ups, practice gear, etc., etc. There is no where else to cut! And if your point is, athletics are not needed at all, then I would point you to the myriad of studies which show how much sports helps the overall development of the kids. I invite you to ask Lorin Cartwright for a copy of the slide she showed us in our coaches meeting, illustrating the GPA of each of our sports programs. My basketball program had a down year last year and finished near the bottom--WITH A 3.1 AVERAGE GPA! That should give you some idea of the achievement of our student-athletes. The brutal reality is, we never should have built Skyline but it was difficult, at that time, to see the impending economic decline. I have seen a lot of people say we should close Community. I don't think you would ever hear a former student or parent from Community say that. It is highly popular and successful. An idea (which I have to credit to another coach in our building) would be to turn Skyline into Community and sell the valuable downtown property the current Community sits on today. This would eliminate an entire athletic and extra curricular budget. This would eliminate the huge waiting list that exists to get into Community. This would bring immediate cash to the district. Of course, those of us as coaches at Huron and Pioneer that have been adversely affected by Skyline are inherently biased but this proposal makes sense on a lot of levels. Combining Stone and Roberto makes sense too.
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 11:05 p.m.
That's a very important point @DonBee makes, I think. And it is clear that alllll those extra sports...water polo, and volleyball and figure skating and horse jumping or whatever...could very reasonably be made into club sports, like they presumably are in other school districts, right? Is the resistance that if that happens, little Jimmie and Janie would not have "varsity tennis" or whatever to put on their college applications so that Princeton could become a possibility?! I just don't understand why we continue to choose to increase class sizes to the point that people are leaving for private schools and charters and we burn out good teachers with their increasingly unmanageable jobs... for the sake of soccer, or whatever, even though there are ways these sports are already supported in the community and they could become clubs instead. Make the players pay for their college application padding! Get boosters to cover facilities and uniforms or other expenses! I'd like the resources spent on *classrooms*. I don't buy the GPA argument...kids have to maintain a certain GPA to stay in the program, so no surprise that they would be higher than the cut-offs. I see no evidence presented about *raising* GPA with varsity sports. I love the idea of PE, but I don't think the competitive sports scene is needed to create good PE in our schools. And I totally don't understand why AAPS won't actually *show* us how much is spent on extra-curricular sports in our schools...
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 5:23 p.m.
bballcoachfballfan - You may feel that they underfund athletics, but Ann Arbor supports more varsity teams than almost any other district in the state. If you look at the per student allocation of funds AAPS is in the top 5% of the schools in the state according to what data is available. I am sorry you feel this way, if AAPS only supported the sports that were supported by at least 33% of the schools in the state, your program would have a lot more to work with. But instead it supports a large number of sports that are only supported by a very few school districts. Your perception of spend is based on what your program gets, not what the district spends as a whole.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:14 p.m.
Community can have Pioneer. They apparently really like old buildings. We'll keep the new school.
r treat
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:09 p.m.
Give me the 9000 for my son and ill put him in a private school without a budget problem. Also, most of us in the private sector share the burden of rising health care costs. The days of taking away from students and giving to others to cover health care should be history. This is not Greece!
macjont
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:34 p.m.
"A Voice of Reason" ????? Anything but!
Lac Court Orilles
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:57 p.m.
This is a concrete example of the problems voters created for themselves when they voted Republican last November 2010. Remember this, elections have consequences. Hope everyone is enjoying their self inflicted consequences now.
Flea
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 12:07 p.m.
Voice of Reason: looks like you were too busy working on Jane's campaign to pay any greater attention to the school board race than making hit and run comments in the blogs about union support. Priorities are evident. Are you going to get involved in the AAPS budget process in a constructive way? Did you attend last night's forum? We're you sitting at Glenn Nelson's table? Do tell.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:12 p.m.
Yeah, because if we had elected another Democrat, the economy would be absolutely booming right now (like it was under the previous Democrat) and money would be flowing in so fast (like it did under the previous Democrat) we wouldn't know what to do with it. Thank God the adults are in charge now.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:19 p.m.
Thank goodness that the Republicans are running things know. The Democrats and Teacher's Unions have bled our schools dry. And, what do we have...a school systems that is stuck in the 1970s, a MEAP test that was dumbed down so everyone passes, huge financial burdens of pensions, lush salaries and benefits for teachers, protection of teachers who molest, sell drugs, etc. at schools, and most importantly, ACT/MME scores that are 48th in the nation when compared on the National Report Card. We can no longer afford a poor system. Teachers have no accountability for students learning and doing a better job. The teacher's union has been electing school board members for years and pays off community yes men. If you want to learn more about the MEA, follow this link : <a href="http://meaexposed.com/" rel='nofollow'>http://meaexposed.com/</a>
cette
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:21 p.m.
They can shut down Rec and Ed...it's going to be tough to cut more teachers. Roberto should move to Community and Community should be absorbed in one of the big schools, as a separate program housed in a big space. Fact is you could do that more at the high school level. The teachers and administration are going to have to take paycuts. It's that simple.
DonBee
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : midnight
cette - the district audit shows that Rec & Ed is self supporting. Given some of the fees the district charges for field use and building use, I suspect it would actually turn a profit if it was independent and did not use AAPS facilities.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:09 p.m.
I think Rec & Ed is self-supporting.
jns131
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:06 p.m.
As for Roberto? Uh no. Keep those last resorts where they are....out and way from the community. As for Community? You are beating a dead horse. No one will ever close that school ever. Rec and Ed? A big boon to business as usual. Even though some of the teachers who do the rec and ed need to be removed. Some let you know they don't want you in their classrooms. I know.
local
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:14 p.m.
The push by the governor to lower moneys given to districts is a way to have business run charter schools all over Michigan, thus helping businesses yet again. As for Ann Arbor, lets start with pay reduction in administration or eliminate her position all together, worked last year (Dr. Green and her pay hike when compared to Dr. Roberts). Instrumental Music in 5th grade is unnecessary, that can start in middle school (with a small participation fee?). Stop printing colorful poster size "strategic plan" posters that are mandated to be hung in every classroom in the district. Stop printing color pamphlets explaining PBIS in the elementary school. (these last two I know about since I was just at my kids conference over the last few days) Athletics need to be pay to participate. Find out what the program cost to run and divide the cost among people who participate. IS it now time to close a school and re-district? Some elementary schools are running at over 400, yet some are only at 200, find a small one and reconfigure that area. Shorten the school year by adding time to school day in hopes that the district can save money in electricity and heating. Need to think outside the box folks, the same people complain about the same things, but no new ideas seem to come forward. Let's have Ann Arbor be the model for new thinking when it comes to public schools.
jns131
Sat, Nov 12, 2011 : 2:42 p.m.
Actually you should really take a good look at the calendar for this year. Especially the hi school. Take xmas for example. The entire district is off for 3 weeks. Yup, 3 weeks. Then at the hi school level they shorten the days for exams and then at the end of January? Off again for another 3 days. Then a mid winter break and a spring break. Cut out the amount of days for holidays and the number of days these teachers are off and you can shorten the school year to the first week of June. Right now? We are not out until June 15. Sucks.
jns131
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:03 p.m.
5th grade music has nothing to do with budget matters. This has always been and always will be. This way children have the opportunity to play an instrument if they want to and don't have any talent. Ours has no instrument talent for singing. Which we do and continue to do. Give it a rest and lets see if we can cut some balais people out of there.
cette
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:53 p.m.
Yeah, it's those color pamphlets regarding improving classroom behavior that cost $14 million every time. Shorten the school year. Or change the school year and run it during the summer not winter. It's cheaper to run a/c then heat. Who needs a superintendent? Robert Allen did a good job, but didn't want the job. Maybe if we find someone who doesn't want the job and doesn't do a good job that'll work out better, it'll be cheaper. Think of the cost savings from not doing instrumentals.
alarictoo
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:49 p.m.
Shortening the school year is not in the hands of the local districts. The number of "days" required for a school year is mandated by the state.
G2inA2
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:40 a.m.
Several years ago we (teachers and parents) pointed out an incredibly high per student spending at Stone and Clemente. We were promised that it would be addressed and probably the schools combined. Guess what. Didn't happen.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:06 a.m.
One more thing, if the principals at the middle schools were not so busy attending meetings and actually managing their schools and their students, then we would not need assistant middle school principals. All district meetings should be before schools, after school or during lunch via video conferencing/Skype. Nothing is important enough to pull middle school principals away from their buildings. The job is running a school not attending meetings.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:18 a.m.
Heaven forbid that any meetings take place in the summer before school starts. Other than safety concerns, what could be important enough for a principal to leave their buildings and the children and teachers they are suppose to be supporting? This district needs to focus on the children.
AMOC
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:21 a.m.
It's nice that AAPS wants to start the conversation about the budget earlier this year. That means there's a much better chance of making thoughtful decisions about both structural costs and optional expenditures. And after participating in several rounds of them on several different issues, I have a suggestion for re-structuring the typical AAPS "community input" forums. Please, please, please quit using AAPS employees to "record" the results of the small group table sessions. The reports turned in by these "facilitators" mainly reflect the preferences and biases of the facilitators; people who benefit from the system and are responsible for creating the status quo. Use volunteers from each table of community members to record ideas / discussions instead, and you will get a much better idea of what the community really thinks. AAPS staff should have a separate (anonymous?) ways to make cost cutting suggestions.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:55 a.m.
The state appointed Emergency Manager will help us sort it out. Let's just wait and have them make the hard choices for us.
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:04 p.m.
An Emergency Manager would nullify the actions of the elected school board. Which would be OK with me because they haven't made many.
shepard145
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:53 a.m.
Close the county's educational administrative village on Wagner and ship the money to the schools.
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:39 a.m.
Anybody wonder where our new $245K/year "gal" is in this discussion? Come to think of it, where has she been all year? So....anyway, I have a suggestion on saving $245K.
J. A. Pieper
Sat, Nov 12, 2011 : 2:28 a.m.
Well, she certainly hasn't visited my school, we hardly know she is there, never hear from or of her!
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:29 a.m.
Seriously, she has here mouthpiece Liz, (who keeps us informed on "important" issues) now when there is some heavy lifting to do, she throws "deputy Dan" out there and we don't hear a word from her now either. What does she do? Order pencils for staff?
a2doglover
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:13 a.m.
Clearly, the most expendable $245K the district has spent! Where is the leadership? The only thing I have heard her comment on is the potential tech millage-she is in favor of further taxing the residents of A2.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:32 a.m.
Stop paying the head of the teacher's union salary 1/2, Brit out of the school budget: $70K Purchase BCBSM directly from Blue Cross vs. paying an extra $1200 directly to the MEA. Savings 1,200,000-$2,000,000 Gosh these seem like easy solutions. Think you should spend some time and survey parents in a scientific way vs. convenience sampling of forums. These are not really talking to parents who are working with their kids at night to help them with their math homework because their teachers do not know how to effectively teach math. Sorry, a little bitter today.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:07 p.m.
Wait.... money goes from the budget to the head of the teacher's union? Isn't that kind of like giving somebody the club with which he will beat you over your head?
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:42 a.m.
Also, if the new head of schools has to ask the people how to cut the budget, then we are in trouble. There are 100's of school districts that do more with far less. Something is not right and hopefully the new gal has the answers and this is just an exercise in community building.
jns131
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:31 a.m.
Um....can we say privatize the custodians? Their contract is up in June. We gave them two years before we would descend upon them like bees to honey. Transportation is already owned by WISD even though AAPS has to pay for its maintain. Going to be interesting to see what is left of custodian and transportation by years end. Need to clean house up in Balais folks. There is too many paper pushers who are only waiting on their tenure to retire. Short fall or not, too many cooks and not enough servers.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:28 a.m.
Get rid of the communication and marketing department including Liz Margolis (spelling). Even though she does a great job, we do not need someone of her caliber sending out emails, and we really do not need a newspaper. These do not have a direct impact on children learning. $500,000 If you need someone to take your calls and send out your emails, a parent volunteer could be found. Close down the draining foundation and Wendy C. She is a nice enough gal, but doesn't seem to raise a dime that isn't already in the system. I am guessing that the budget over there is $200K and I have yet to see the $1 million that they are suppose to raise. I guess maybe the timeline was 25 years. Anyway, this is not directly impacting the classroom. All items that are sponsored by the foundation are nice to haves not must haves for student education. There is a reason that the annual report does not have any financials in it. It is shameful that they spend time putting together a annual report and should spend their time trying to raise money instead. Ok, there is a start. And finally, stop negotiating and promising to pay teachers money that you cannot afford. Stop hiring consultants. Just end it.
grimmk
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:57 a.m.
Change the school lunches to protein bars and vitamin packs. Or only let those in need have lunches and the rest can fend for themselves. Do kids really need dominos/pizza hut at school?
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:41 a.m.
grimmk - Like Rec and Ed, the lunch program is a break even proposition - no tax payer funds are used for either one. Ok, a small variance exists each year (+/-) and it is balanced by changing the fees the following year.
Tex Treeder
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:32 a.m.
Eliminate the athletic directors. A high school does not need an athletic director.
Tex Treeder
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:56 p.m.
So tell me: What do they actually do? Is it critical to our kids' education? I'm sure they do something, or at least appear to do something. Whether it's critical or not remains to be seen.
bballcoachfballfan
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:30 p.m.
As a coach in the building, you obviously are grossly uninformed. These are some of the most overworked people in our district!
Tex Treeder
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:24 a.m.
It's easy to say "Close Community" but the budget shows that Community costs less per student than Pioneer. Maybe we should close the warehouse high schools and open real neighborhood schools instead.
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:56 p.m.
@Tex Treeder, We need to look at existing resources. We can't simply create 12 new 400-student high schools, nor can we create one 6000 student high school out of thin air. And if we could, what would we do with the existing buildings? It requires an incremental solution starting from where we are today. We could easily close one of the three smaller high schools, fit the students into existing buildings, and sell the real estate to anybody but U-M. It doesn't work for any of the larger ones.
DagnyJ
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:38 p.m.
Does that "less to run" include the cost of CHS students to participate in sports, take classes at other high schools, etc? Also, stop busing between high schools. If kids want to go to CHS they should take classes there and not expect to go to other HS for academics or sports.
Tex Treeder
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:45 p.m.
I agree, it can cost less money to put more students into fewer schools. We could theoretically put all 7000 (?) high school students into one enormous building. But that would be ridiculous. Schools like Community give more bang for the buck. I'd prefer to get rid of the warehouse high schools and go to smaller, neighborhood based schools. Reduce busing, adjust the schedule to start at a more reasonable time and give the kids a better education.
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:34 p.m.
It will cost less to put more students into fewer buildings. Money can be saved on maintenance, utilities, insurance, administration, transportation, and student services. Move the two most important elements - students and teachers - to the larger schools and you have immediate savings. The valuable downtown real estate can be sold to a private developer and put back on the tax rolls to increase revenue to the schools.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:54 a.m.
I think we already are paying fixed cost at Pioneer, Huron and Skyline for a Principal. If you close Community, these students would help to bring the cost per student down for those schools as well.
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:45 a.m.
That's because they balance a lot of the cost on the backs of the other schools.
Halter
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:55 a.m.
It might cost less per student, but it sure doesn't cost less to heat that dilapidating old building, maintain the infrastructure, and keep the whole thing standing....cost is more than the per-pupil expenditure. It also costs less per student there because they have virtually none of the extra-curricular clubs/athletics/etc that the big high schools have. If it did, I bet it would be much more than the cost at Pioneer, Huron, or Skyline.
grimmk
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:54 a.m.
Thank you!
Steve
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:42 a.m.
Proposal A was brought forward when Kalkaska closed it's doors because it ran out of money. We voted to raise the sales tax from 4% to 6% with the added revenue replace the revenue lost by lowering the property taxes across the state. Now the schools are caught in a cycle of increased requirements while decreasing the money coming to the district to meet those challenges. Its time to face the facts-schools are now operating at bare bones level. As a teacher, I have seen custodial staff reduced and then privatized and now my room is cleaned once or twice a week. My classroom supply budget has been cut to nothing so any supplies are purchased out of my personal money. When we did have raises, our raises did not keep up with our salary peers in the private sector. Being a teacher is a calling that you can not ignore. I have fought and argued with various people who continue to say we just need to cut the "exorbitant salaries/benefits of the school employees." To those people I have to ask what is better for kids-healthy, well compensated teachers who are able to devote their time to their students or having teachers leaving school to work their second job just so that we can continue to pretend that the current funding model is tenable? It's time for people to stand up and tell Lansing that this is not acceptable and their top priority is to come up with a stable funding source for the schools that will allow us to truly begin to strengthen our schools. If this is not possible, then return the schools to local control.
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:17 a.m.
Steve - Some of us have seen 50% pay cuts since 2008 and others have seen a member of their household lose a job. The current revenue plan at the state level is about as stable as taxes can be. Any other formula would have to charge by the child. Local funding would end up immediately with an NAACP and an ACLU lawsuit that would be won at the Federal level, they already have in other states.
Steve
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:55 a.m.
Don- As recently as this past spring I had a coworker talk about his wife getting a 7% raise as a result of her performance review. Now, this may have been countered with benefit reductions of which I am not aware. But, please keep in mind that I have seen my salary drop $5500 (elimination of department chairs and benefit decreases) over the past two years. This on top of the fact that my salary is already 10-12% lower then a private sector employee with comparable education.
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:57 a.m.
Steve - Salary increases? Try pay and benefit decreases. To date the state average income has fallen by more than $4,000 since 2000 according the Census Bureau. The public sector has mostly been protected from wage decreases compared to the private sector.
Ralph
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:40 a.m.
Cut the sports program.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:03 p.m.
DonBee makes a good point - in other towns, the school fields are considered community resources. In Ann Arbor, High School baseball fields, for example, are padlocked. Even the batting cages are padlocked. We can't have the unwashed masses doing batting practice on school property, can we? These facilities belong to the citizens, but they've locked us out.
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:39 a.m.
$3 plus million transferred from the general fund, and over $11 million in sinking fund and bond fund money this year. If that is what you call cut, I would suggest you make a good deputy superintendent for finance. OBTW - an unknown amount of money from the boosters for various sports, and money from the general fund to maintain the fields only the Varsity can use. Yeah, it has been cut alright.
jns131
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:32 a.m.
Its already been cut. We parents pay for our children to play. So look in another direction please.
rcastentman
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:36 a.m.
"We want the budget to be reflective of what public would like to see," he said, in terms of what is cut or not cut. Translation: Speak now or forever hold your peace. It's time to speak up for your pet school or your pet program! At the end of the day, 85%+ of the budget is salaries. It figures that 85% of the cuts will be people.
Halter
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:32 a.m.
BY the way, the current budget is here: <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a>
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:36 a.m.
No, that is the budget passed, it does not take into account a number of revenue changes that have happened since it passed.
a2edu
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:15 a.m.
Are you kidding me? Here are a couple million in cuts that would actually improve student performance: 1. Eliminate the Deputy Superintendent of Secondary Instruction. Everybody knows that the position is a complete waste of money. Don't believe me? . . . just ask ANYONE. 2. Eliminate the District spokesperson and support staff. For all the money we pay our new superintendent, she should be able to speak for the district. That's her job. 3. Eliminate all District curriculum coordinators. They have absolutely no effect on what happens in the classroom. 4. Eliminate all Balas positions created for failed administrators who could not run schools. Why is AAPS an employment agency for incompetent employees? How can this community sanction such a practice? 5. Cut administration positions 10 %. Move to a more site-based, teacher centered leadership model. 6. Cut excess out of programming. I know, I know . . . it's nice having acting, film, guitar, sports medicine, art and music composition classes. But people, we need to cut MILLIONS. Can we now afford this kind of curricular diversity? And, most importantly: 7. WHY DO WE HAVE 6 HIGH SCHOOLS . . . each with their own slew of administrators and support personnel? Community needs to go. We just can't afford it any more. Ditto Stone, ur . . . Ann Arbor Technical Academy. 8. Teachers need to take another 5% pay cut. Just sayin. 9. Did I mention that we need to cut Balas Administration bureaucratic bloat? Nothing should be off the table. I hope our school board can summon up the guts to act.
a2doglover
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:18 a.m.
Bravo!
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:10 a.m.
1) redirect all of the sinking fund money and bond money remaining to energy efficiency - that will have a long term payoff 2) hire a professional to rework the districts contracts for electricity and gas - they have over paid the last 3 years by DIY 3) remove the subsidy for varsity sports 4) reduce the number of athletic directors to 1 5) reduce the number of principals in the high schools to 2 - a Principal and a deputy 6) reduce administration head count by 40% 7) increase the contribution by employees to health care to the state average of 20% 8) raise parking fees for UofM football games by $5 a car and $40 an RV 9) close or privatize the pre-school (it was supposed to be revenue neutral and it is costing money) 10) consolidate accounting and other administrative services at the WISD level, including HR 11) combine Stone and Clemente in one building and under 1 principal - do not consolidate classes or teachers 12) raise parking fees at the 3 high schoools by $20 a semester for all parking permits 13) force the building staff at Skyline to actually use the building control system for energy management 14) open the school gyms at the high schools to community fitness and charge thru Rec and Ed - same for pools shoot for a 20% profit after costs (unlike the break even Rec and Ed currently runs on other programs) 15) move all sports to Rec and Ed do away will all high school supported sports (a more extreme choice than (3) above) 16) consolidate all of the districts in the WISD area - at the administrative level (e.g. 1 supertendent, 1 school board, but the schools remain the same) 17) Outsource any services that are not classroom focused (secretaries, custodians, grounds maintenance, etc) that have not been outsourced 18) Stop maintaining school grounds beyond play areas at the elementary schools, except for a monthly brush hog trip thru the grounds. 19) Stop busing students between buildings for any reason 20) ... $8 million & more. No teachers touched.
DonBee
Sat, Nov 12, 2011 : 3:05 a.m.
1. The problem at Skyline is that the system is constantly disabled. So it has NEVER run as designed. Let it run right, and get adjusted correctly and the issues will disappear. 3. Nope, will not happen - bussing only moved a dozen students. Scare tactic, not reality 4. Yes, from both AAPS, and Plymouth-Canton (P-C). No they are not there every day those kinds of hours, and in P-C, the custodians have responsibility for much of what the athletic directors do. P-C pays about 40% of the cost of the extra athletic directors to have maintenance staff fix the issues. 6. Oh, but I do. Many are out of the building for meetings 2 or 3 hours a day. Having grade principals is a waste of money, a counselor could do most the parent facing job better, cheaper and has better training. 12. The number is approximately $50,000 a year - not pennies at all 15. As a former high school 3 sport person and a college 2 sport person, I find what AAPS doing crazy. It is beyond the level of what we did in college. 17. I am outsourced labor for the work I do, and I work an average of 80 to 100 hours a week. I out work the people that hire me. You obviously don't know how to motivate people.
Things That Make You Go Hmmm?
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 6:31 a.m.
1. Because it reportedly has worked so well at Skyline. I've talked to a couple of people who work there and the building is cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Great job of getting energy efficiency in there. 3. That would be great for Dexter, Saline and Chelsea as they would each gain lots of students who didn't want to be in the Ann Arbor schools. 4. Have you ever met an athletic director? You could probably go over and introduce yourself between the hours of 8am and 10 pm since they all work about 60 hours a week. I'm sure you could reduce it to 1 or 2 athletic directors. They'd only have to put in 100 hours per week and do an adequate job. 6. Clearly you don't understand what principals do. Dealing with the constant problems in educating today's spoiled and undisciplined youth is a full time job. Mix in the numerous clueless parents who want to justify their kids poor behavior and blame everyone but their own child for their problems. The schools were short staffed to begin with and everyone has lost administrators over the last 2 years. 12. That will show them! You're talking about raising pennies when the district needs millions. That also passes additional costs on to the parents. 15. Spoken like a true non athlete. The principals at the surrounding high schools are smiling as they wait with open arms for the exodus from Ann Arbor. 17. Have you ever worked with outsourced labor? They don't do ANYTHING...and don't care what you think. There is no leverage on them and they do what they want.
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.
A2Reality - Thank you, but I could not have taken the job, as much as I would like to. My job puts me on the road 40+ weeks a year. As much as I would like to serve or even contribute to the forums, I can not attend. I am hoping the forum tonight is well attended and that lots of ideas get tossed around.
A2Realilty
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 10 p.m.
We've had some good debates DonBee. I wish I knew your real name because I'd have written you in for the school board.
EyeHeartA2
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:44 a.m.
Hey, you should be paid, like $245K for those ideas! Maybe just submit them to our "gal". She'll take it from there, I'm sure.
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:52 a.m.
My bad - the last line should have been $14 million not $8 million. I did a typo.
Tex Treeder
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:23 a.m.
Number 4 and Number 5, absolutely. I'd say reduce the number of athletic directors to zero.
Halter
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:29 a.m.
Superb
MjC
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:56 p.m.
Close that new high school that we've never been able to afford.
Carole
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:54 p.m.
Just recently, all of the schools have been rekeyed to use a keypad to enter the schools instead of their keys. How much did that set the budget back? And, was it necessary. Those funds could have gone for something more important like for the students one way or another.
alarictoo
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:06 p.m.
@Halter - That is the hope. But as long as they keep busting out the windows to loot computer labs...
Halter
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:31 a.m.
While that seems like a big upfront expenditure, it will actually keep tens of thousand of dollars on materials from walking out the doors over time...
blahblahblah
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:51 p.m.
The recent student census showed losses occuring on the east side of the district. Take one look at the elementary school boundary map which is a contributing factor. Nobody likes redistricting, but the last one left the southeast side a mess.
Blerg
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:34 p.m.
What are the numbers for how much revenue AAPS keeps from the company it contracts to run football parking? Is it accurate that AAPS only keeps a base amount of money and the firm keeps the rest? Is there a way to run it through AAPS once again in order to keep all the profits and not see them slip away through yet another failed attempt to save money from outsourcing?
ezbngreen
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:27 p.m.
I'll pay for kids to get the very best.... Raise my taxes. In the long run the investment will pay for itself...
Dog Guy
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:25 p.m.
Closing Commie High will mean another superior charter school will be started in the area, resulting in fewer AAPS students. With the current decline in AAPS student numbers, I suggest selling Skyline High. (I told you so. I told you so. I told you so.) Not that I am concerned as I am a teacher living on the ever increasing taxes.
alarictoo
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:04 p.m.
@Dog Guy - If we were going to close one of the large, full-program high schools, Skyline would not be the intelligent choice. The better options would be either Pioneer or Huron, because: * They are older and require much more maintenance, and are consume more energy to heat/cool, etc. * They are both located near U of M locations that could conceivably benefit by purchasing them and converting the space to their uses. * From an accounting standpoint, the facilities are more depreciated. Honestly, the school district could make more by bull-dozing Pioneer and turning it into a large parking lot for use for U of M sporting events.
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:16 p.m.
There is nothing wrong with charter schools for those that choose them. They give up their options to free transportation to a school of their choice (CHS), access to AP classes, sports, music programs, and their friends at the comprehensive high schools. If they are willing to give up all these things for an unproven charter school, I support their choice. How many of the unlucky CHS lottery losers go to charters?
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:42 a.m.
And in any case, you can "I told you so" for forever, but the overcrowding at Pioneer and Huron needed to get addressed. There are waiting lists at Community HIgh, so clearly the AAPS could have and should have considered more seriously the idea of creating some more small schools and some more 'alternative' schools, but they decided to not ( though I do see how Skyline is trying to be different than the other large schools in town). Stop letting CHS students take whatever they want wherever, and you'd probably lose some of those students to private schools, but a good number of them would just end up at the comprehensive schools where they play sports/ take classes anyway. The AAPS student numbers aren't declining so much that we could eliminate Skyline and not have terrible overcrowding at the other schools again. *That* might be the impetus for a bunch of new charter high schools to try and take student numbers away from AAPS! As the increasingly unacceptable large-class sizes might do as well...
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:04 a.m.
I'd love to see that charter school open ;-)
MisterAngryBear
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:56 p.m.
Raise revenues. You want quality education for your kids, it doesn't come cheap. An across-the-board hike in property taxes on homes worth over X dollars.
MjC
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.
If voters think it's ok to raise taxes for sidewalks, then we should be ok with supporting the school. However Angry Bear - if you're going to tax people, you have to tax everyone.
SFK
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:46 p.m.
Proposal A from the Engler days prohibits a local community from asking for millage increases for the district to use for general operations.
J. A. Pieper
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:31 p.m.
Sorry Mr.AngryBear, I disagree. If this community continues to raise taxes, then more people will have to leave, hence hurting the economic base of the community. I greatly appreciate a high quality education, but the economic burden cannot be placed on the backs of homeowners. When and if I ever get to retire, I know I can't afford to live in AA, and will hopefully be able to sell my affordable home, so I can live somewhere more affordable. This district is top heavy in administration, and certainly could close another elementary school, maybe even one of the smaller high schools. But the district doesn't have the guts to do this because they don't want to offend, or scare away parents. The continued increase in charter schools will eat away at our population, and the economics of public education will tank even further.
Publicschooldefender
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:50 p.m.
The real issue is that the current legislators in Lansing are determined to destroy public schools. We are watching them systematically take funding in every way imaginable and now the school district is asking us to think of MORE ways to cut costs. We can be very sure Snyder's priority is not with the public schools. Look where he sends his child(ren). This quote from Horace Mann says it all: "Education...beyond all other devices of human origin, is a great equalizer of conditions of men --the balance wheel of the social machinery...It does better than to disarm the poor of their hostility toward the rich; it prevents being poor." Education helped build the middle class in America - now they are trying to take it away by destroying public schools.
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:37 p.m.
"The real issue is that the current legislators in Lansing are determined to destroy public schools." Yeah, that's it! They have a meeting every day and ask each other,"OK, what else can we do to destroy public schools?"
David Paris
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:01 p.m.
@Basic Bob- But... you know there were six zero's that came after the $14, right?
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:08 p.m.
It's the fault of all the unemployed workers, homeless people, and inmates not paying taxes. If we could get them to cooperate, there would be plenty of money for schools.
Jim Mulchay
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:46 p.m.
Here is a 2011/2012 budget presentation from June 2011 - <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a> - crude numbers (if I read them correctly) $180+ million to be spent Instruction (about 86m) elementary - 40m middle school - 17m high school - 28m Added needs / special ed - 20m pupil support services - 22m instruction support services - 7m (say 135m for students and classroom staff?) Board of Education / admin - 2m school admin - 12m business services - 2m facilities (buildings, grounds, maintenance) - 18m transportation - 6m There appear (to me) to be a lot of nuances to the accounts, titles and such; As far as state/federal funding, mandates and such - you can complain all you want, but you end up having to play with the cards you are dealt. I believe some of the added needs programs are mandated by the federal government, maybe some of the other programs?
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 10:42 p.m.
Does he have a blog still going where he comments on such stuff, and where we can petition for a FOIA-request?! Didn't AA.com try to FOIA it and they got rejected...I have some vague memory about such claims... Ridiculous that they won't just produce it! Do they need *three* ADs to run interference on the actual spending amounts? Do they keep records on napkins in the athletics departments or on computers like the rest of the universe, where spreadsheets can tally up the totals and show us the line items *very easily*?! So disturbing...
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:36 p.m.
I bet Ed Vielmetti could get the athletic budget information.
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:26 a.m.
Thanks for that thorough reply @DonBee. Are the athletic budgets of other school districts such top-secrets?! So, the sense is that they won't tell us how much is spent because we'd be appalled? Or is it just a general refusal to give us line-item type expenditures? I guess we can ask these questions at the budget forums, because they will be asking for suggestions from us?! It's so frustrating...
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:13 a.m.
My apologies - let me try again: Mr Kuehn - AAPS has refused any request for information on the athletic program. What we know is: 1) from the general fund $3 million dollars to pay coaches points (overtime) 2) from the sinking fund and bond fund this year over $11 million for a weight room and a new changing room, as well as grandstand rebuilding 3) Some percentage of the grounds maintenance funds for field upkeep - actual numbers are unknown - AAPS also charges REC&ED for field maintenance 4) Some amount from the boosters for various sports including the purchase of shells for the rowing team that seem to list for more than $20,000 each - the total amount is secret 5) Some amount from the transportation budget to take students to away games 6) Ticket revenue from football and basketball (most other sports generate too little to count) 7) maintenance and custodial work from the general fund 8) overtime for the custodial staff from the general fund 9) pay for the 3 athletic directors and their staff from the general fund 10) other subsidization for the program (e.g a lighter class load for some coaches who are also teachers) The total annually (not including the sinking fund and bond fund money) is estimated to be in the $8 to 12 million range. BUT no one can verify any of this because the actual numbers are TOP SECRET
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 4:03 a.m.
Does anyone have an answer for @Brian Kuehn? Because in my looking at what the AAPS offers, it seems impossible to determine how much is spent on extra-curricular sports. You'd think with *three* athletic directors in the system, they could easily present tallies per school on how much is spent. I'd also love to learn how many students at the "alternative school" that Community is supposed to be make use of the sports facilities at those big bad comprehensive schools, where the kids don't get the individual attention they get at the small cozy but gym-and-field-less building that is Community ;-)
Brian Kuehn
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 1:02 a.m.
Did they indicate what extra-curricular sports costs the district?
DonBee
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:13 a.m.
This is purely the general fund and not all of it. There is $3 million transferred to the athletic fund and other amounts transferred to other special accounts. The total (all sources) budget is closer to $220 million a year for AAPS.
thinker
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:46 p.m.
@Keepingitreal We have 6 high schools--you forgot Ann Arbor Tech (Stone School). Do we need 6 high schools? And all the administrators we have?
publiccitizen
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:39 p.m.
Sell the Freeman building and the 40 acres it sits on. That would help since the district hasn't used it since 1987.
Klayton
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:16 a.m.
I think they make more by renting it out...remember they sold Clinton Elementary to JCC for 200,000. Ugh! I'd say rent out MACK (move Open or just get rid of it) and Community (move Community to Skyline or create a Community at each High School)
belboz
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:37 p.m.
Close Community High is always on top of the list. Other schools should be looked at as well, especially at the elementary level. But, If nothing else, the district should charge parents the cost difference to attend Community. As in, if the average cost, including teachers, support personnel, and expenses, is $5000 per student at Pioneer, but $7000 at Community, then send the parents a bill for $2000 if they want there son to attend. Especially since these kids at community are free to take any class they want at any other school. If I have to do it with sports for my kids because "not everyone" participates, then the same should be true with Community. And still the district is not selling ad space on the various school web sites. Isn't that how people on the internet make money?
maizemama
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:28 p.m.
Sounds like some deep cuts need to happen in the administration. Get rid of extra principals. Get rid of consulting projects. Bid out things like printing, food service, etc...Try to negotiate a better rate on things like paper, toner, etc... Get rid of the middle of the day busing to Community (yes, you chose 1 high school, stay at the 1 high school, or figure out a way to get to the other high school). While that does sound unfair to kids at Community, I doubt they have full classes with 38-40 students like Pioneer and Huron, either, so they already have it a little better. Charge all parents a $5/child book fee (I was just choosing a number out of a hat there, it could be 5 or 10 or 15). Cut back on money spent for sports. Get sponsorships for facilities (I took that idea from A. Iqbal) - how about the "Google computer lab". I think it would be extremly detrimental to the students to cut any more teachers, so a large sacrifice needs to come from the "hidden" side of things.
paul wiener
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:51 p.m.
Since there is no newspaper to tell us anything about candidates or serving officials, not to mention detailed budget or curricular information, and since A2.com doesn't permit commentary that's not merely a response to its own reporting, how is anyone supposed to know how to argue, propose or defend an issue? Let the citizens of A2 see the line item school budget(s). It's obvious all the high schools aren't needed, nor are all the sports programs or administrators. Everyone knows this, so why ask again? Are our opinions our only authority?
Things That Make You Go Hmmm?
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 5:33 a.m.
Because everything you read in the paper is always true...
Andrew MacKie-Mason
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:42 p.m.
"since A2.com doesn't permit commentary that's not merely a response to its own reporting" <a href="http://annarbor.com/community/">http://annarbor.com/community/</a>
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:24 p.m.
You "know" this? Really? Do tell the sources of your so-called "knowledge". Good Night and Good Luck
Mike
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:48 p.m.
Trim the fluffy, feel good things from the budget for starters; unify some of the sports teams; privatize where you can; look at facilities like Community - not needed; share resources amongst the schools along with personnel. Any business person that specializes in turning companies around could pull this off
stunhsif
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:33 p.m.
"Ann Arbor school administrators ask: How do we cut $14M from next year's budget?" Are they serious or are they that clueless ? Perhaps Dave Zimmer and Dave Holden over in Saline can help you out, give em a call ! We voted them in and now we can sleep at night. Go Green Go White
Basic Bob
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:07 p.m.
We voted for the same old same old. We voted for CHS is off the table. This is not leadership. Had Mr. Allen made this announcement last week, the vote might have been different. Now we can expect more program cuts to less important people in the district in order to maintain the status quo in Montgomery Burns Park.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:56 p.m.
Yes. Only a fan of M-S-Moooooooooooooooooo could think that simply electing people to the board offers a clear path to cut 8% from the school budget after similar cuts had been made the year before. GN&GL
Ron Granger
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:28 p.m.
How about sharing the details of the multi-million dollar extra-curricular sports budget? Hard to have a discussion when they won't be transparent about that.
Things That Make You Go Hmmm?
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 5:31 a.m.
Ron, The athletic expenditures are contained in each of the districts budget summaries that are published on the AAPS website. The reports are itemized by year, by school and by sport. How much more do you need? It's not going to tell you what they spent on jock straps or basketballs but there's enough information there. If you read the district budget reports from the last couple of years you'd see that sports is approximately 1.2% of the total budget. Cutting the entire district athletic program wouldn't even make a good dent in reducing the budget. If I remember reading correctly, AAPS has already cut somewhere between $1.5 and $2.0 million from the athletic budget over the last 2 years which if I did the math correctly is about 33% of their budget. How much further do you want them to go? If you check with the schools you'll probably find out that student athletes have a higher GPA than non student athletes, have better attendance and have less disciplinary problems. By all means, we should get rid of programs that provide these kinds of results.
say it plain
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:54 a.m.
Exactly... How can we get them to show us how they spend on varsity sports?! They will be having budget forums...don't they *get* questions like that at such events?!
Brian Kuehn
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:51 p.m.
This is a great comment. What would be saved if the sports budget was -0-. I am not advocating the elimination of sports but certainly we should know what it costs before we are asked to close schools, end transportation or fire teachers.
KeepingItReal
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:17 p.m.
Let's see. We have Pioneer, Huron, Skyline, Roberta Clemente, and Community High. Do you think the conversation should start there?
AMOC
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:01 a.m.
You forgot whatever it is (Tech Academy?) that they renamed the Stone School high school program. We have 6 individual high school buildings in this district.
KeepingItReal
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:38 p.m.
Funny!
Ignatz
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:30 p.m.
Roberto got a gender swap? What kind of health benefits do these people have? :-)
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:05 p.m.
Welcome to the consequences of the Governor giving $1.8 billion to his business buddies and thereby needing to dip into the school aid fund to in order to meagerly fund community colleges and 4-year schools. But those tax cuts are busy creating jobs, right. <a href="http://www.aapsef.org/about_us/documents/aapsef_2010_annnual_report-hires_000.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aapsef.org/about_us/documents/aapsef_2010_annnual_report-hires_000.pdf</a> Apparently not, given that the current unemployment rate is .8% HIGHER than it was when the guv's budget became law. Welcome to Snyder's Plantation. Good Night and Good Luck
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 2:04 a.m.
Yeah, r treat. I have found that, much like discussions with Lorraine about Michigan football, facts have little bearing in discussions with conservatives. GN&GL
hypsi
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 5:08 p.m.
You think losing 14 million is tough to figure out, wait until Snyder's Property Tax idea....it will be alot more then 14 million and from more then just your schools: <a href="http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110814/FREE/308149992/snyder-targets-800m-biz-tax-communities-want-plan-if-personal-property-tax-dies#" rel='nofollow'>http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110814/FREE/308149992/snyder-targets-800m-biz-tax-communities-want-plan-if-personal-property-tax-dies#</a> <a href="http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/892741-264/michigans_library_community_gears_up.html.csp" rel='nofollow'>http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/892741-264/michigans_library_community_gears_up.html.csp</a> <a href="http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20111020/NEWS11/110200375/Slashing-state-revenues-would-hurt-locally?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CRoyal%20Oak%7Cs" rel='nofollow'>http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20111020/NEWS11/110200375/Slashing-state-revenues-would-hurt-locally?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CRoyal%20Oak%7Cs</a>
r treat
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:18 p.m.
Your losing it ghost! From great debates between you and steelman to a glass without a drop. Your dislike of snyder is understood but geez!
outdoor6709
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 3:37 a.m.
According to President Obama everything is Bush's fault. So the .5 increase in unemployement is either Bush's or Granholm's fault.
Brian Kuehn
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:58 a.m.
"Do you think there's an Oklahoma land rush of business that will dash into the state on Jan 1, 2012?" I do not believe I said there was going to be a land rush of jobs once the new tax scheme takes effect. I do feel your tying unemployment rates with a tax law that is not yet in effect weakens your position.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:14 p.m.
No proof tax cuts lead to jobs. None. Take a look at the by-state unemployment rates and you will find a remarkable number of low-tax, right-to-work states in the bottom 15. GN&GL
Mike
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:51 p.m.
Without new jobs the budget will get tighter. Not changing the way we were doing things in this state is a recipe for disaster. You can keep raising taxes until all businesses that can relocate do so and the others can just close their doors and work for the government; one problem the government needs the taxpayers to pay for thier jobs............
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:50 p.m.
The budget went into effect on 1 Oct. You are correct, the new tax rates will not take effect until Jan. 1. Do you think there's an Oklahoma land rush of business that will dash into the state on Jan 1, 2012? Businesses hire when the level of demand for their product or service requires them to do so. Cutting their taxes merely adds to their bottom line. It seldom if ever leads to more customers coming to their doors. @stun: Always the intellectual giant. GN&GL
Brian Kuehn
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:40 p.m.
I do not believe the tax changes actually take effect until 2012. While I agree with you that the business tax cuts probably won't translate into a job creation boom, it is too early to tie unemployment rates to a law that has not gone into effect.
stunhsif
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:34 p.m.
What's your favorite flavor, grape or cherry ! Go Green Go White
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:20 p.m.
Ooops. Wrong link. <a href="http://www.ncsl.org/?tabid=22438" rel='nofollow'>http://www.ncsl.org/?tabid=22438</a> GN&GL
ArborGuide
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:03 p.m.
The single largest expense in the school system is educating students, so the solution seems clear. Eliminate the students. By doing so you can eliminate teaching, sports, bussing, and a whole host of other services.
A Voice of Reason
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:45 a.m.
This is great!
PLGreen
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:57 p.m.
Here is a novel idea; DEEP cuts in Administration, both System wide and at each school. Also closing schools it a tough choice, but a choice that must be made. Each school that is closed means less Adminstration. I am sorry but you may loose that favorite Principle.
thorj97
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 10:28 a.m.
I think you mean "lose" not "loose".
a2edu
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:23 a.m.
It's principal
gretta1
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:55 p.m.
What is the current projected budget for 2012/2013? That is a necessary starting point. Is that available? Is the total budget number available?
Halter
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:48 p.m.
Close Community High altogether and raze it. Sell the property. Redistribution students and resources to the other high schools. Stop printing tens of thousands of copies of the Rec and Ed course offering booklets and put it online. Halve the budget of that entire department and stop wasting resources for 6 students for classes that require heating entire buildings. Move classes to schools that are open for other reasons during evenings. Stop duplicating classes already offered elsewhere for the same cost in Ann Arbor. Decrease budgets to Arts programs that already have self-sufficient booster/fundraising organizations. If Pioneer can afford to do Phantom of the Opera they have too much money.
thecompound
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:15 a.m.
What about students who weren't fortunate enough to get into Community and now are stuck in large classes because of the budget? Community is kind of one of those NIMBY things when it comes to putting the budget on the table.
grimmk
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : midnight
Right, because closing a school helps the students! I'm a proud Community alumni. I'm better off because I went there and not to Huron or Pioneer. I know a lot of other students are too.
Andrew MacKie-Mason
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:37 p.m.
Halter, can I see the budget you're looking at? How much does the district provide to Pioneer Theatre Guild, and how much of their budget comes from ticket sales and the boosters? I take it you've got evidence that the district is spending a lot of money on them?
Halter
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 10:20 p.m.
Yes, understand Lisa....which is exactly why they don't need MORE of it from us taxpayers
lisa D
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:40 p.m.
Pioneer can afford to do Phantom because they ( Theater Guild and Susan Hurtwitz, Producer) MAKE money off their stellar productions every year!
Charlie Brown's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:40 p.m.
No, you can't deprive student of their right to wander downtown!
grye
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:23 p.m.
Is it possible to run Community within another existing high school facility? A separate building with it's own infrastructure may not be necessary.
dotdash
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:58 p.m.
A lot of what you say makes sense, except closing Community High. You can get back a cooking class in a few years if you have more money, but you can't get back a school with it's own ethos and enormous success. Once it's gone, it's gone. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
A2lifer1
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:46 p.m.
Make all sport programs club. Rent the facilities to outside organizations. This would could cost and raise revenue.
r treat
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:11 p.m.
No!
gretta1
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:52 p.m.
Outside organizations do pay rent. I am fairly certain girl scouts, brownies, cub scouts and boy scouts do this already.
Greg
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:44 p.m.
Well, this school district has had some great decades. Schools are incredible and money has been flowing easily up until the last few years. As I see it the schools leaders need to get used to the idea that until the economy gets better, they will have to deal with having less. Reality bites sometimes, but will not go away just by wishes or ignoring it.
dotdash
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:37 p.m.
Does anyone know the annual budget of the AAPS education foundation? I'm wondering why they don't play a larger role in picking up some of the shortfalls in the school budget. In other places I've lived, the educational foundations funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars into the school budgets. Does the AA EF not function that way?
Jane Montas
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:50 p.m.
@dotdash - My name is Jane Montas and I am a board member of the Ann Arbor Public Schools Education Foundation. I apologize for the Foundation's oversight in not thanking you for your donation. I do not know your name to contact you directly but hope you will accept my thank you now on behalf of the Board and the Foundation. Although the AAPSEF is unable to address the entire AAPS budget shortfall, through gifts like yours, we have been able to help preserve many of the programs that make our district special, such as the World Languages program for all third and fourth grade students in the district. Please contact the AAPSEF office at 734-994-1969 if you would like to discuss your concerns with someone from the Foundation. Thank you again for your donation.
dotdash
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:09 p.m.
Thanks, Ghost. It's just that the foundation has a very low profile (I never hear about them and they've never followed up on a donation I made last year) and I suspect they could do a lot to make the budget problems at AAPS less painful. Educational foundations in other cities are building endowments, much as universities do. I couldn't find anything on their website about an endowment.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:56 p.m.
I can't find a budget on their website (there ought to be one), but in 2009-10 it RAISED $350,000. <a href="http://www.aapsef.org/about_us/documents/aapsef_2010_annnual_report-hires_000.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aapsef.org/about_us/documents/aapsef_2010_annnual_report-hires_000.pdf</a> It seems highly unlikely, then, that it has enough money to put even a dent into the $14 million deficit. Good Night and Good Luck
gretta1
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:51 p.m.
I've been wondering the same thing lately. I want the teachers hired back.
brimble
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:32 p.m.
Roughly 8% of the budget is a substantial number. Could 8% of the total number of administrative positions be eliminated? Would teachers accept 8% pay/benefit cuts, or cutting 8% of the district's teaching positions? Can overhead costs be cut via maintenance streamlining, energy savings, etc. by 8%? Should 8% of extracurricular and/or sports programs be eliminated? None of those are exactly attractive choices. But as an across-the-board look, they are all necessary. And they are all predicated on the optimistic assumption that state funding will be level on a per pupil basis. Time to buck up and speak to what the priorities are.
grye
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:18 p.m.
For what the Superintendent is being paid, she should already have all the answers. Soliciting solutions from parents (who are obviously biased) clearly sends a signal of questionable competence. Please tell us your plan and then let us weigh in.
Things That Make You Go Hmmm?
Fri, Nov 11, 2011 : 5:01 a.m.
Just like an over privileged Ann Arbor parent. Everyone whined and complained that they weren't given an opporunity to give input when budget cuts were announced last year. Now you're being given a chance to give your input before decisions are made and you're criticizing someone who's been on the job for 4 months.
a2edu
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:27 a.m.
Then why is she paid as if she had all the answers?
Ignatz
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 9:26 p.m.
No one person, regardless of how much they are being paid, has all the answers.
a2doglover
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:12 p.m.
2 words: Close Community.
Stephen
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 2:49 p.m.
Why not make Community into a private charter school? Everyone wins, students keep their low student to teacher ratio, no new taxes, and the students at Huron and Pioneer might even get to know their teachers when their class sizes are not forced to go up.
Halter
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:27 a.m.
This came up at the same time of year last year too -- with the community split along the sames lines: Most people for the idea of moving CHS into one of the other high schools...except for the CHS students and parents themselves. Neither here nor there. What is know is that there is a disproportionate amount of money going to CHS vis-a-vis the number of students (450) being served in a big, antiquated, expensive, hard to heat, falling-apart building. The entire budget is available here: <a href="http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf" rel='nofollow'>http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/budget/files/1112aapsbudget.pdf</a>
thecompound
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:09 a.m.
@grimmk, then I would consider yourself "lucky" that you won the lottery to get into Community. Sounds like not getting lost in the crowd and knowing your teachers would be nice for all schools.
grimmk
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:57 p.m.
Excuse me?! I went to that school and I take great insult to that. Community is a great school. There should be more like it. It puts a greater responsibility of one's learning on the student, not the teacher. You weren't lost in a crowd of students as you are at Huron or Pioneer. And you KNEW your teachers.
Jammers02
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:10 p.m.
~Cough Cough~ Superintendent pay cut ~Cough Cough~
Basic Bob
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : noon
Leaders also speak publicly on important issues. Where is Dr. Green, and why does the board accept her reclusive behavior? It's been 4-1/2 months and she has done substantially nothing for the district.
sbbuilder
Thu, Nov 10, 2011 : 12:03 a.m.
Leaders lead by example. That's why having the Super take a pay cut is so significant.
Carole
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 11:52 p.m.
Yes, indeed -- superintendent pay cut--When Dr. Roberts was superintendent, he took a 10% decrease when the milleage did not pass.
Edward R Murrow's Ghost
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:50 p.m.
Yeah. Pay her nothing and that will account for 1.7% of the deficit. Good Night and Good Luck
tmad40blue
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:08 p.m.
I would think that if all the time spent endlessly debating what to cut went toward a building closure, it would work out much better than the district thinks it will. It sounds like they're just afraid to do it because of the required work ethic - when in reality it would lift a substantial weight off the deficit. Yes, it would be an unfortunate reality that the kids would have to attend a different school, and might get separated from their friends. But it seems like the district doesn't really care about the kids much to start with.
Greg M
Wed, Nov 9, 2011 : 8:55 p.m.
Maybe. But I recall when Newport elementary was sold, which in hindsight wasn't such a great idea. If schools must be closed AAPS should at least consider leasing the buildings out instead of selling. You can't easily correct the sale of a school if you find out in 10 years you need the room because of a change in demographics. I see from the 2010/2011 budget AAPS spends almost $20 million a year on operations and maintenance. With some aggressive efficiency audits I could imagine squeezing 10 - 20% here. I'd also cut back on guidance services, which looks like it's around $5 million a year. Switch to less personalized mentoring. There appear to be 9 executive admins right now at $1.1 million a year. I'd lose a few of those, consolidate their positions.