carush

Wed, Sep 23, 2009 : 2:37 p.m.

Far more people throw plastic shopping bags away than reuse them. They blow around outdoors and are dangerous to wildlife. Biodegradable plastic bags are not as much of a problem, they could be exempted from an ordinance. And you people who are griping that you will need to buy bags to scoop poop instead of getting free bags -- well, light bulbs used to be free from the electric company, now we pay multiple dollars for a single CFL. You used to be able to set leaves out in the trash and now you need to purchase large paper bags or a compost cart for it. Stuff happens. Rise above, people. As for not remembering to bring bags, it's simple: always keep a bag in your car, and if you carry a bag, keep a bag in your bag. If you walk, keep one in your coat pocket. This doesn't work with those canvas bags, they are too big and bulky to carry anywhere. There are ultralight shopping bags out there that stuff down into a wad half the size of your fist and weigh nothing. Two brands at REI are Granite Gear and the REI brand. I have five of these.

bunnyabbot

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 11:35 a.m.

Many places offer a "bag credit" if you bring your own bag to the store instead of taking a new bag. Even if it is only 5 cents it adds up and as a coupon clipper it justs takes a little bit more off my bill. The retail stores at briarwood should be encouraged to offer a bag credit if you reuse a bag. The mall should also maybe set up a couple bag recycling containers where people can stuff in an unwanted plastic bag. the roof of briarwood is so large I would wonder why they have not pursued a "green roof" or adding solar power panels. Additional skylights installed or an atrium roof to let in more natural light during the day and the solar panels can throw off the energy costs of lighting during darker days/hours.

MJSteklac

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:44 a.m.

I don't always remember to bring a reusable bag with me. I don't think a ban is the way to go. The bags would be a burden on businesses that are already struggling through this economic depression. Instead, the city could work with retailers to accept used plastic bags for recycling and/or encourage the reuse of the bags. I reuse plastic bags as small trash bags and to clean up after my dog on walks.

Denise J. Murray

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 9:07 a.m.

As part of the management team at Briarwood Mall, I would like to be sure that the community is aware of the strides that we have taken to be socially/environmentally responsible community partners. We partnered with Recycle Ann Arbor over a year ago to recapture cardboard, plastic and paper, and from April 2008 to September 2009, we have recycled 2.4 million lbs. In the past year, we have successfully reduced energy waste by 14%, and we are partnered with DTE Green Currents to help citizens switch over to clean wind energy. We have even made available reusable tote bags through guest services, for a donation to our Simon Youth Foundation program. Many merchants have compostable bags. My concern is that the ordinance would be difficult to enforce, as the annual sales of each individual merchant is not public knowledge. Furthermore, I would find these times one of the most challenging I have seen in 18 years in the real estate industry. I would not want to create an environment that would deter retail from the community.

roadsidedinerlover

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 4:01 a.m.

I am all for this ban and I applaud the City Council for undertaking this issue. But what puzzles me is that they have not addressed a ban on smoking at Ann Arbor restaurants. I am speaking about the issue of smoking that is allowed in the outdoors seating. I won't walk down certain streets (Main and Maynard) because of the toxic fumes from the outside diners. Surely the council can can this along with the plastic bags!

Macabre Sunset

Tue, Sep 22, 2009 : 2:38 a.m.

The pro-bag-ban crowd needs to be consistent. How 'bout a new law banning stores from selling bottled water? You need to bring your own recyclable water bottles to the store, and fill them yourselves with the water. After all, it's for the environment. Next, we can ban plastic diapers. For the environment. And, while we're at it - we need to eat less to reduce the strain on our city's sewer system. Rationed toilet flushes. For the environment, of course.

John Galt

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:49 p.m.

I see we have not experienced enough pain here in Michigan (or perhaps Ann Arbor). To waste time micro-managing the bags businesses chose to use is yet another nanny state waste of time. If you really want to save the environment, stop reproducing.

SBean

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:18 p.m.

I haven't looked at the SF or other ordinances, but I suspect that part of the impetus was to keep the bags out of the ocean. I think that the testimonials here about repurposing plastic bags as well as choosing to bring reusable bags, the voluntary elimination of plastic bags by many businesses in town (my ex-wife's store, 16 Hands, being one of the first many years ago--kudos to her), in addition to the likely minimal impact on wildlife of stray bags in our area, weaken the case for a ban. Let's keep encouraging retailers, large and small--including Meijer--to offer reusable handle bags and then purchase and use them.

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 11:14 p.m.

Anyone with any sense knows that landfills are expensive and that land has better uses than to continue to fill up with our garbage. Everyone knows that using more oil and chemicals to make more bags to haul the stuff we don't need is unsustainable. These unsustainable practices will become increasingly expensive for everyone including businesses unless we all take responsibility. I'm not suggesting that plastic bags be banned, I'm suggesting that sometimes businesses can set a good example by doing what's right without being "forced" by the law. Let business educate people instead of enabling bad behavior.

PformerPfizer

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 10:36 p.m.

Just off the top of my head - how much better for the environment would it be if city council voted to ban the delivery of paper newspapers and magazines. Think of all the trees that would be saved, especially when you can get the content on the Internet and eBook Readers. Plus most of the time, those newspapers are wrapped in plastic bags. Plus the fuel used to deliver them to recipients. Wear & tear on the roads during delivery. Newspapers are bad for the environment, they should be banned. Oh wait, I think they already did this.

bunnyabbot

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 10:27 p.m.

This is such a waste of a2 "government" time/money (insert word here). the impact on small businesses would be great, sure, more will offer their own reusuable shopping bags for PURCHASE. But there is an added cost to offer non plastic bags (paper) to customers who don't have a reusable tote when they grab a few things. this would effect retailers with sales of a million dollars or more. So HOW are they going to police that? and it is NONE of their business which businesses have what for gross sales. PERIOD. Additionally gross sales does not eqaul NET PROFIT. They could have gross sales of 1 million and operating costs of $950,000. So their figure is retarded if they are adding to the expenses of local small businesses. Places like Zingermans would be effected and thier bag is printed all over b/c it is a form of branding/advertising. This is government stepping on toes! I don't know one person that does not recycle the bags themselves or reuse/repurpose the bags anyway. I carry one in my purse just in case. great for walking the dog to pick up poop, the occasional doggie up chuck (or up chunk). one reused bag and one new paper towel versus 20 new paper towels. thanks for creating more waste their A2 council. garbage bags for small cans, also, I might put nasty trash in them and then put it in the big can if I don't want it in the kitchen trash for more than a day (think meat wrap paper) travel trash bags, for the car/camping etc, muddy shoes, wet swimsuits, the list goes on. perhaps they should be accepted on trash day for recycle, bags collected must be stuffed inside of a bag and tied at the top, no loose bags permitted. there is no reason to over police people. this won't make the cutting of the police dept and the likelihood of that happening to the fire dept or your stupid german phalic squirting "recycled rainwater" (snore) $750,000+ art project distant memories. everyone, vote for NEW people, get these comfortable council people out and get fresh people in.

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 10:24 p.m.

Many businesses would prefer to get rid of bags because they take up space that could be devoted for stocking profit generating products. The more responsibility that a customer takes in transporting what they purchase, the less that the business has to do in that respect. Lower business costs, using space for more profitable products and less waste going to the landfill. Everybody wins except those people who don't get it and don't care to get it. Plastic bags are like second hand smoke. Those who continue to support unsustainable practices have a negative effect on everyone else who has the common sense to know better.

David Bardallis

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 9:52 p.m.

@ Moose: "What if businesses discontinued using plastic bags on their own because it's the right thing to do." If there is an actual economic reason for them to do so, as opposed to a feel-good "ban-anything-I-don't-like" reason, you would see more of it. Lots of things go in landfills. Why single out plastic grocery bags? Is anything that goes into a landfill somehow inherently worthy of being suppressed by the state? Why? If it bothers you to put your groceries in disposable plastic bags, don't do it. But I see no reason why your preference needs to be substituted for everyone else's by force of law.

march

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 9:38 p.m.

Don't you think people will merely buy plastic bags for their kitchen trash and many other unpleasant things that a household can produce? Recycleable plastic bags would be better. This can be accomplished.

JoeNuke

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 8:35 p.m.

This is not a City Council issue. The Council should spend less effort and time telling the city's residents and businesses how to live and spend its effort to better serve the residents and the region within the tight funding it has available.

Jim Pryce

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 6:25 p.m.

Plastic bags are a waste. You can put many more items in the reusable bags or paper. On a recent trip to the store I came home with only five paper bags as compared to the fifteen from a similiar trip the week before when I got plastic. I do use the plastic ones to pick up after my dog, but that's the only thing they are good for. We should also charge a deposit on water bottles & sport drink bottles. That would also cut down on litter. When the bottle bill was first introduced on pop & beer, I walked into a K-Mart & rode out on a brand new bike. That was pretty cool for a kid in Middle school at the time

a2grateful

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 5:57 p.m.

AnnArbor.com should add this question to their poll: What is more useful? 1) A plastic bag; or 2) City Council. I definitely would vote for item 1!

fabfan

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 4:44 p.m.

about time to get rid of plastic bags all they do is stay in landfills forever fabfan

notnecessary

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 4:30 p.m.

This is a great idea - let's make Ann Arbor a little less friendly for business. It's a great idea for our economy! Why not let people choose the sorts of bags they get? Let's just force everyone to go buy canvas bags. If you forget your bag, then you should just steal the cart from the grocery store and push it all home - oh wait, half of Ann Arbor already does that.

leaguebus

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 4:20 p.m.

Forget the plastic bag ban, get the Recycle AA guys to figure out how to recycle them. I take all my plastic bags to Meijers, do they just end up in their dumpster? My garbage is all plastic items that Recycle AA will not take from the curb (cottage cheese cartons an example).

treetowncartel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 4:17 p.m.

Makes sense to me Laura. You forgot the pro of new industry too. However, you would have to replenish your burglar defelector more often. Only con I can see.

CynicA2

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 4:14 p.m.

I don't know which is better(or worse) from an environmental standpoint, but it would be nice if all paper bags had handles, like the ones at Trader Joe's and Hiller's - they are much easier to carry, especially up stairs. I agree with some others here that this issue isn't the most compelling one for the mayor and council to be spending our time and money on. When do they plan on FIXING OUR STREETS AND BRIDGES?!?!? I was born and raised here, and have lived most of my life here, and I do not remember a time when sooooo many streets have been in such poor shape. Some are practically one continuous array of adjacent cold patches. For the city to have allowed the State St. bridges to decay to the extent of having to greatly restrict their use is almost unthinkable. Infrastructure development and maintenance is a BASIC function of city government, like police and fire, trash collection and drinking water quality. NOT like Taj Mah City Hall with million dollar fountain, retro street lights, and solar parking meters. Some in city hall seem to have their priorities all wrong, a fact I will remember the next time I go to the polls.

Laura Bien

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3:59 p.m.

I see both sides of this issue. I too re-purpose all of our plastic Meijer's bags, which are stored in a coffee can in my kitchen cabinet and used for packing my husband's lunch each day. On the other hand, plastic bags are unsightly and persistent in the environment, and the threat of a lawsuit, as linked above by DagnyJ, gives one pause. I think the solution that will satisfy both sides is to use biodegradable plastic bags. The snack food SunChips uses biodegradeable plant-based plastic bags for its chips. Here's a news story about their bags: http://www.potatopro.com/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?List=813b91f5%2Df5b5%2D46ec%2D95e2%2D463829ed0100&id=2536 On their site they have a time-lapse video showing how the bag naturally breaks down in the environment and disappears. You can see the video here (click on "Compostable Packaging at right): http://www.sunchips.com/healthier_planet.shtml If AA adopts biodegradeable plastic bags, the bag-repurposers will still be able to repurpose their bags, the plastic industry can--theoretically--produce these bags and won't sue, and we will see fewer bags blowing around the city as unsightly trash because they will have melted into the ground.

a2grateful

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3:41 p.m.

Why not just let people choose? Because it's the micromanaging council that forgets to work on important things, like balancing the budget, police and fire protection, infrastructure maintenance, competent master planning, and competent zoning ordinance language. Good grief!

treetowncartel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 3:33 p.m.

In addition to cleaning out cat boxes, these bags are great for picking up dog feces that is always no more than six feet away.

A2K

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:51 p.m.

I ordered a dozen plain, unbleached canvas bags from ecobags.com and they've worked great for my family. I keep 10 of them in the car for shopping trips, and a few in the house for odds/ends. They were cheap, and the strap in long enough to fit on your shoulder so you can carry more. Word of caution: fruit is easy to bruise in canvas bags due to being able to hold way more than standard paper/plastic...so make sure yer apples are on top.

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:44 p.m.

What if businesses discontinued using plastic bags on their own because it's the right thing to do. Would the anti government crowd continue to blame government? If you don't want a nanny government then take some responsibility for yourself. Find alternatives and maybe government wouldn't have to make those decisions for you. Or would Dave B and Space Girl blame the business for making a good economic and environmental choices? If if they choose to shop elsewhere, what happens when all businesses and people realize that it's a good thing to reduce all the junk we consume and then throw away in the landfill Plastic and paper are recyclable and reusable.

Space_Girl

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:33 p.m.

@David Bardallis That's my thought too. I re-purpose these plastic bags. In the end, I would have to purchase other plastic bags. I also wonder how this might limit commerce and new businesses in the area. Would a chain store want to be in Briarwood Mall if they had to specially manufacture paper bags in order to have a store in AA? I would this that may have a negative effect in some ways.

David Bardallis

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:19 p.m.

This is a small thing, but I use plastic bags from the grocery store as garbage can liners and to clean out my cats' litter box. If this idiotic ban goes through, then I'll be forced to, guess what, buy plastic bags to use for these things. End result: Government do-goodism costs me more money but does nothing to "help the environment" because I'm still gonna need bags. Pretty much how every stupid government do-goodism measure works.

cindy

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 2:17 p.m.

Bags, paper and plastic, should be phased out. Ireland has banned them years ago and all the citizens have adjusted to bringing their own reusable bags when they do their shopping.

DagnyJ

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:55 p.m.

Mel, can you show me the evidence that the creation and disposal of paper bags is better for the environment than the creation and disposal of plastic bags? And guess what? If we ban plastic bags, we will likely be sued. Your tax dollars at work. http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/business/local/article/B-TOGO18_20090817-211803/286595/

Mel

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:41 p.m.

This is progress. Those opposed have almost never done the research beyond their armchairs. Paper is better than plastic but the best answer is bring your own reusable canvas bags. Stop taking bags just to carry 1 item from the drugstore to the car. If retailers would itemize bag-used on our receipts, everyone could start to see the real impact. The other end of impact is the cost to everyone in A2 for having to produce and dispose these bags as garbage. It is an invisible cost to everyone that is too easy to ignore in our taxes. If there is further question about the affect plastics has on our environment, search for the "north pacific gyre" many times the size of Texas and SanFrancisco has already banned plastic bags after a study the paid for on this subject.

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:35 p.m.

Once again, like on health care, the politicians are behind the curve on this issue. Just like no smoking policies for many businesses are good for public relations, health and the environment, businesses that educate their customers about plastic bags and then discontinue to provide them will benefit for all the right reasons and be ahead of their competition.

Space_Girl

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 1:04 p.m.

I agree that stores in Briarwood & Arborland Mall don't need plastic bags. I like getting plastic bags from grocery stores though. I need them to clean my cat litter boxes!! I can't use paper bags for that!

Tina Reed

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:45 p.m.

Teresa You're right. All Whole Foods stores discontinued use of the plastic bags in 2008.

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:37 p.m.

I know it's trendy these days to enact laws that restrict large businesses exclusively, but the bottom line is that if a new law would harm small businesses to the extent that it shouldn't be passed, it's a bad idea, period. This one just seems petty and arbitrary. I suppose the horse is already out of the barn when it comes to businesses wanting to locate just outside of city limits because of Ann Arbor's well-known anti-business practices, so it will have minimum impact.

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:31 p.m.

Council should require a disposal fee from all businesses who continue to provide plastic bags. Use the fee to pay for the release of the emails that they're hiding.

Pamela

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:26 p.m.

I support this initiative. I always bring my own reusable bags to the grocery store. It's one small step I can take in helping preserve the environment.

DagnyJ

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:25 p.m.

This city council has time to waste on shopping bags, which is akin to fiddling while Rome burns. Hey, why not lay off some cops and worry about plastic bags! Plus, there isn't really any evidence that paper bags are better. In fact, there is some data showing that the air and water pollution required to make paper bags far exceeds the environmental damage caused by discarding plastic bags. City council, snap out of it. Do the hard work, and forget this silliness.

Teresa Shaw

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:23 p.m.

Yes, there absolutely should be a plastic shopping bag ban in Ann Arbor. And FWIW I don't believe Whole Foods offers plastic bags as an option anymore.

Moose

Mon, Sep 21, 2009 : 12:18 p.m.

Lots of time to debate plastic bags but no time or money to release emails sent to each other during council meetings possibly in violation of the Open Meetings Act. Let's see how much of council's time is spent on plastic bags vs the continuing email scandal.