Ann Arbor City Council candidates discuss transit issues and possibility of new AATA tax
An Ann Arbor Transportation Authority bus headed out to Plymouth Road on Route 2A pulls away from a stop on Washington Street in downtown Ann Arbor after picking up a passenger on Friday afternoon. In the background is the new Varsity student high-rise that's nearly complete.
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
Council Members Mike Anglin, D-5th Ward, and Sabra Briere, D-1st Ward, said there's talk of putting a millage on the ballot to pay for increased bus services through the Ann Arbor Transportation Authority now that Ypsilanti is joining the AATA and expanding the authority's footprint.
Sabra Briere
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
Briere said she expects serious discussions in the coming months about the possibility of an AATA millage going on the November ballot in both Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti. She said she hasn't heard yet how much it could be.
"That's the next step we'll face," Briere said, adding a new millage could provide decent transportation options within Washtenaw County's urban core — a goal of both cities.
"There will be a cost associated with expanding services into Ypsilanti," she said. "There's also a cost associated with adding services in Ann Arbor."
Ann Arbor residents already pay about 2 mills and Ypsilanti residents pay about 1 mill for AATA services. The new Ann Arbor Area Transportation Authority, which is now in the process of being formed and would include Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor, could ask voters to approve a separate transit levy on top of the millages the two cities already pay.
Ypsilanti on its own cannot increase its millage rate, Briere said, because it already has "taxed itself to the ceiling."
"It cannot tax itself any more, and if they're going to contribute more to transportation, it has to come from something other than a city millage," Briere said.
In Ypsilanti, 35.2 mills of taxes are levied by the city, compared to 16.6 mills in Ann Arbor. Ypsilanti's total homestead tax rate of 64.4 mills also beats Ann Arbor's 45.7 mills.
AATA CEO Michael Ford told AnnArbor.com on Monday a few steps remain before a millage could go to voters, but he's expecting those steps to be taken this summer.
The Ann Arbor City Council already agreed to revise the AATA's articles of incorporation to include Ypsilanti, and now the AATA board must concur with the changes.
"Once our board has taken formal action, we will then focus on getting the new board members appointed from Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti," Ford said. "We expect that the new constituted board will then take a look at what funding is needed to improve services in the expanded authority area."
Once there is agreement with the new board on how to move forward, Ford said, then officials will have a better idea about whether or when a millage will be brought to the voters.
Mike Anglin
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
If there are other interested municipalities wanting to join the authority, Ford said, they could request and seek consideration to join the newly expanded authority.
Anglin, a major critic of some of Ann Arbor's other transportation initiatives — including the push for a new Amtrak station — said expanded bus service is something he could get behind.
"I'm very, very good with the buses," he said. "I'll vote for the millage for the buses because I think we have colleges out there, we have populations we can start moving back and forth."
He added, "I will not vote for the train — possibly in my lifetime — in this area. We just don't have the population density needed to support a train."
Anglin and Briere are running unopposed in the Democratic primary in August, but they could face challengers in November if any Independent candidates file to run.
Kirk Westphal, chairman of the city's Planning Commission, also is running unopposed in the Democratic primary, but he's expected to face 2nd Ward incumbent Jane Lumm in November.
Lumm, an Independent, was in attendance on Saturday but did not participate in the candidate forum, which was hosted by the Ann Arbor Democratic Party.
Council Member Stephen Kunselman, D-3rd Ward, shared the stage with his primary opponent, Julie Grand, chairwoman of the city's Park Advisory Commission.
Also on stage was Jack Eaton, a neighborhood activist who is trying to unseat Council Member Marcia Higgins, D-4th Ward, in the August primary. Higgins was sick and did not attend.
Westphal made known he's a strong supporter of transit and the environment, and he supports transit initiatives that Lumm has questioned. He said he and his wife moved to Ann Arbor from New York in 2004 and actually bought their house here because it was on a bus line.
Kirk Westphal
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
He said transit doesn't work sustainably without density, so that's an element that must be rolled into the conversation.
"The service has to be robust enough to attract people out of their cars, but then again we need to support development near transit lines in order to make it a sustainable, financial endeavor."
Anglin made it clear he's a big supporter of buses, but not a supporter of trains. He said buses are the most economical way to move people around a city the size of Ann Arbor and they're flexible.
"They're much less expensive than trains," he said. "If you think you can afford a train here, you're going to be really surprised how much that costs and the subsidies that are attached."
Anglin said the city shouldn't "start entering into realms" it doesn't know much about, because "we'll get burned financially very, very badly." He said too much money has gone into pondering the possibility of a new Amtrak train station on Fuller Road.
"We go down roads spending a lot of money, and we can't do the essentials," he said. "The city's job is to do the essentials — have your police and fire, have your services here in your town, plant some more trees, keep your roads looking really good, and then when you can achieve these things, then look beyond. I'm not saying don't have a vision."
Eaton said transit is a regional question, but he questioned the recent process the AATA went through for creating a countywide transit authority — a plan that ultimately fell apart when not enough neighboring municipalities expressed interest in funding the proposed services.
Jack Eaton
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"So I would be careful with the money we collect for our local transit system and I would focus on improving what we have to show how well it works for us — make it an attraction to live inside of Ann Arbor and demonstrate to other communities that it's worthwhile."
Eaton said he would support increasing the frequency of buses within the city limits and the duration of hours so that buses run later in the evening, and he'd support more investment in roads.
"We need to improve our infrastructure so that the pavement is good enough to ride a bicycle on," he said. "The potholes and the horrible surfaces that drivers complain about are even worse for bicyclists and pedestrians. We need to improve the markings on our roads and our bike lanes so that it's clearly maintained so that a bicyclist feels secure in their bike lane."
Briere acknowledged there are different opinions in the community about how public transit should work.
"Some of us think it should be our substitute for owning a car — we should be able to go to the doctor, go to the grocery, go to the library, without having to own a car," she said.
That would mean a lot of neighborhood service, she said, while other people think the public transit system should be the means for people commuting to work.
"I don't think we have consensus on those two viewpoints yet," she said.
Julie Grand
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"I heard a complaint just last week that somebody couldn't go to an event because there was no parking available downtown," she said. "I hear all the time people don't want to go downtown because the parking is so difficult."
She said she also hears other people say Ann Arbor doesn't need more parking downtown.
"So the fact that we have these very different, polarized decisions and opinions about transportation shows that this is not a simple problem," she said.
Kunselman used the forum as an opportunity to make clear he's going to do whatever it takes to prevent a new train station on Fuller Road.
"Fuller Road Station took too much time in terms of our transportation discussion, and we need to actually kill it," he said. "And I will be proposing, if I win the Democratic primary in August, to rescind the memorandum of understanding that put Fuller Road Station on the table."
With Fuller Road off the table, Kunselman said, the city could focus more on talking about park-and-ride lots, vanpools, the Border-to-Border Trail, the AirRide buses out to the airport, sidewalks and bike lanes. He also mentioned the possibility of a new train station using part of the MichCon property across the tracks from the existing Amtrak station on Depot Street.
He said the property directly across from the station already is owned by Amtrak and the MichCon site could include both parking and parkland.
Grand said the city only has so much control over the decisions that are made around transit, but she talked about what she sees as possibilities.
"We need to diversify our transit options," she said. "The park-and-ride system has been very successful for a lot of people. I would like to see more of that."
She said she knows the idea of a new Amtrak train station in Ann Arbor is a hot-button issue, but she's glad it's on the city's radar and is going to be decided by voters eventually.
"So ultimately my opinion doesn't even matter that much about the train, but I'm glad that it's being studied," she said.
Stephen Kunselman
Ryan J. Stanton | AnnArbor.com
"That is all about making nonmotorized connections," she said. "And I believe if you want people on their bikes … you get them using their bikes in a recreational setting. And then it becomes more feasible to that person to then think about other kinds of nonmotorized or alternative transportation."
Kunselman said he thinks Eli Cooper, the city's transportation program manager, could do a better job focusing on a more refined transportation agenda.
"He can't do that job because he was appointed to the AATA and serves as the policy advisor to the mayor, and where did that go?" Kunselman said. "Countywide transit — that flopped. That failed because it didn't have the people behind it. It was a classic example of poker politics, and we need to remove that city staff person from the AATA who doesn't live in the city — doesn't have an egg in the nest, so to speak — and get him back focused on our transportation planning."
Ryan J. Stanton covers government and politics for AnnArbor.com. Reach him at ryanstanton@annarbor.com or 734-623-2529. You also can follow him on Twitter or subscribe to AnnArbor.com's email newsletters.
Comments
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 12:57 p.m.
It is absolutely ridiculous that local polticians are proposing to increase taxes to fund AATA. AATA should be raising bus fares to cover their costs. At present rider revenue only cover about 25 % of their operating costs. We should not be subsidizing UM students to ride the bus. No subsidizes me for my transportation costs--I pay the full amount myself.
tommy_t
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:19 p.m.
125 bus drivers, $8.6 million in union wages = average $68k/year per bus driver. Where do I sign up?
Vivienne Armentrout
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 4:59 p.m.
There can be no question that AATA has made some big gambles, and lost at least some of them. I reviewed the recent history (especially the county-wide plan and its early implementation) back around the beginning of the year. Here is the first of a 3-part series: http://localannarbor.wordpress.com/2012/12/27/topsy-turvy-transit-where-do-we-go-from-here/ Something that has not been discussed lately is that AATA is running on a deficit, partly because of these gambles. I supported the idea of bringing Ypsilanti into the AATA system, but there are many details to be reconciled. It is obvious from these comments that any new millage request to Ann Arbor taxpayers will have to be explained very carefully.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:40 a.m.
Reminds me of the difference between Detroit and its suburbs when it comes to taxes and how they got that way. We have to raise our taxes because they are already taxed to the brim. Well, whose fault is that? I don't really want to subsidize Ypsi. Ann Arbor already pays far more than it gets back when it comes to county taxes and other things. Regardless of what happens the AATA people are relentless and won't take "no" for an answer.
Ypsilanti City Resident
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:04 a.m.
Why cant we take the Bus to the Library on Whitaker Road? City Residents pay taxes to support that building, we should be able to take a bus there
DJBudSonic
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 12:37 p.m.
Good question. I would like to see thoughtful route expansion for just such a case. I am sure that some rerouting could be done to provide better service at little or no cost.
lynel
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:19 p.m.
"Also on stage was Jack Eaton, a neighborhood activist who is trying to unseat Council Member Marcia Higgins, D-4th Ward, in the August primary. Higgins was sick and did not attend." I hope Marcia is doing better,I just wish she was felling up to representing Ward 5!
LiberalNIMBY
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 8:52 p.m.
It's official: this comments section has become the "Party of No" echo chamber. From the sound of it, you'd think Ann Arbor was a pretty crummy place!
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:02 p.m.
Liberals who are in control in Ann Arbor run a one-party state and if you don't agree with their ideology and special interests, they will not even listen to you but they might call you a extremist or a racist. So much for open free debate.
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:28 p.m.
No, no, it's a great place. Our roads are flawless, our utilities facilities are ultra modern, none of our services get cut, our schools are without troubles, our leaders make wise decisions with money (we got a real bargain on a waterproof brass girder showcasing really cool wires and a chandelier that's well-guarded by security). Can't be beat, why, just look around you! I mean, to complain would be the height of ludicrousness. It's not as if we pay more than one would expect for all this.
Skyjockey43
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:05 p.m.
Actually I think most of us agree that Ann Arbor is a great place with some serious problems. What we're concerned about is making those problems worse, and adding more problems that could eventually make Ann Arbor a pretty crummy place. But the histrionics are always appreciated.
JoeNuke
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 8:01 p.m.
I think the 2 mils we are currently contributing should be sufficient. If a different millage structure is needed for Ypsilanti to participate, then we should do it. But we should not accept an increase in total millage for Ann Arbor's portion of AATA as the price. I also believe AATA has expanded beyond its purpose with the subsidized Air Ride. There are independent drivers that provide door to door transportation to the airport. They feed themselves and PAY taxes to support their community. It is beyond ironic that AATA then uses those taxes to compete with these individuals. This is not a core public transit service, and it need not be subsidized.
Kensington alum
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 7:32 p.m.
On the topic of subsidies, shouldn't there be some analysis of what we'll be getting for this increased fee? It's nice to talk generically about "improved service" and "better access" to various communities - but those arguments are devoid of any meaningful measurement criteria. How is usage measured now? How will usage improve, in some measurable way, by increasing taxes to pay for it? What, in short, will we ACTUALLY be getting for this?
Colorado Sun
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 6:38 p.m.
The AATA has squandered many tens of thosands of dollars to fight an ACLU suit to keep an ad off the bus system. That case continues to roll onward. The Michigan Daily and Ann Arbor Chronicle has done in-depth coverage of the case and raised the issue that it is still not even over at the Distrct Court level. Dan Korotkin of the ACLU has indicated that appeals may be in the offing on the limited victories the AATA has acquired. The ACLU will likely bring a motion seeking several hundred thousand dollars in fee and cost reimbursement for their victory in obtaining a preliminary injunction and a ruling that the AATA policy in two ways violated the First Amendment. How this litigation squares with the mission of the AATA has never ben explained nor can it be reasonably understood. It appears to be a political battle between two opposing groups who are very content to have third parties incur the actual costs in the donnybrook in federal court. Public funds and an insurance carrier has apparently footed the AATA bill for legal services in defense of the suit. The AATA has retained two law firms and an expert witness. Is this necessary? There needs to be a public accounting of the costs the AATA has thus far incurred. There is a $50,000.00 cost deductible the AATA has been paying.
leaguebus
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 4:57 a.m.
So the AATA should have to run every crank ad that the bigots can think up? This is a cost of doing business in the modern day world.
Colorado Sun
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 6:27 p.m.
Fuler Road is a waste of taxpayers' monies. The primary benefit would inure to U-M. Anglin and Kunselman are correct to oppose this proposed project .
annarboral
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:21 p.m.
There is absolutely no need for a new AATA tax or for the existing AATA taxes. It's simple, let the people that use the buses pay for the buses. Why do we continue to subsidize something that is not "sustainable"? How would you feel about a tax to help motorists pay for their cars & gas & insurance?
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:07 p.m.
Agreed. Why aren't people who use the bus paying for bus service? Why should other people pay for people to ride the bus. Did you know that bus riders only pay approximately 25% of the cost of the system they are using? Is that fair?
Westfringe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:04 p.m.
I am not paying taxes so people in another city can ride the bus. Taxes in this city are out of control and we still can't afford BASIC services.
dotdash
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5 p.m.
How much of the reason AA should subsidize Ypsi riders is that it is in our own best interest (to have employees, shoppers, etc) and how much is a form a charity for Ypsi or to fulfill the ambition of the AATA? These elements all seem to be in there, and neither of the first two is necessarily bad, but it would be nice if the AATA were open with us about why they are asking what they are asking.... I wonder if AA residents would prefer to subsidize low cost housing or low cost transportation? If you want people to work downtown for what we pay these days, you have to have one or the other... Or we could pay twice as much for our purchases and employers could pay a living wage. The money has to come from somewhere after all.
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:11 p.m.
Some of us living in Ann Arbor are not in the position of subsidizing other people for housing or transportation. We do not make high salaries and are not rich and we live very frugally just to get by
you can't handle the truth
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 4:10 p.m.
So the tax and spend liberals ran out of other people's money in Ypsilanti but there is still some left to take in Ann Arbor??
leaguebus
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 4:54 a.m.
So the don't tax and spend anyway Republikans are better? Surely you jest!
EyeHeartA2
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 3:25 p.m.
More taxes. Yippee. The empire needs to be built. This is similar to why Prop A. Happened. Too many empire builders with their hands constantly out.
you can't handle the truth
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:52 p.m.
Taxes are already sky high, but it is never enough. Who is running this place? Sounds like Obama.
CynicA2
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 3:17 p.m.
Far worse than Obama, it is the Hieftje - about as clueless as they come.
CynicA2
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:21 p.m.
There will be NO millage passed by TAXPAYERS to fund additional AATA follies now, or in the foreseeable future, and our elected officials are delusional if they think otherwise. Fix police, fire, ROADS, and the water/sewage plants, FIRST... then consider secondary priorities, like public transportation. If it is so important to the riders, then raise the fares. Don't pick the pockets of those who never use it.
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:13 p.m.
Yes if there is money fix the roads first in Ann Arbor. Don't waste scarce funds for highly-subsidized public transportation for the select few
belboz
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
A millage for AATA, when riders only pay 15% of the actual cost already? Come on. Raise the rates if more money is needed. If not, then it is not a service in demand, and money is just being wasted.
justiceforeach
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:38 p.m.
@Ryan Stanton - thank you for your article on transit. Perhaps I missed it, but your readers may want to know know that for better or worse the train station effort continues apace. For instance, proposed costs for a conceptual design redo of the train station was due May 15th 2013, with selection of the vetted proposal by June 3rd 2013. Is it possible, Ryan, for you to find out where this process stands? I, for one, will have many more questions, but perhaps we could start there. Thanks!
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:16 p.m.
Why is work continuing on the Fuller Road train station without a public vote authorizing this project? Don't we believe in democratic control and decision-making in Ann Arbor?
Ryan J. Stanton
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:50 p.m.
I'm checking on that now.
Tanzor
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:35 p.m.
AATA is over 80% subsidized and is operating at a loss of over 24 million dollars a year and yet there is this mad quest to continually expand the scope of its service regardless of cost. Is there any regard for operational efficiency? I see buses running empty every day - allot. I am a firm advocate of public transportation, however it must be done efficiently with fiscal responsibly as a priority. We as a country are in serious trouble, our national debt will exceed 17 trillion dollars this fall. Check out this site http://www.usdebtclock.org
snark12
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 12:16 a.m.
I can't believe how much money we're losing on the fire department, too! When are they going to start pulling their weight??
JimmyD
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:48 p.m.
They're gonna make it up in volume.
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:27 p.m.
"Some of us think it should be our substitute for owning a car " Yeah, and "some of us think" we should all get ponies. But then we realize that's a crazy thought, too.
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:24 p.m.
Someone should ask the question "do you envision raising Ann Arbor's AATA tax to help fund Ypsilanti's bus service?". Because that sure sounds like what they are hinting at. Or will they just bury that in what they call "expanded Ann Arbor service"?
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:32 a.m.
Buried. Can you imagine seeing it phrased that way? :)
emsgp
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:06 p.m.
Police, fire, and roads. Any other issue is secondary and should be treated as such by the people we have elected address and fix these problem areas.
JimmyD
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:47 p.m.
Water is nice too.
spaghettimonsters
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:34 p.m.
Schools.
nekm1
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:01 p.m.
So long as any millage is not another cover for paying huge retirement pension costs and silly health care for life schemes...it makes sense.
Forward Progress
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:47 p.m.
Kunselman, Anglin and Eaton have such a warped idea of what a democrat is. Democrats are for helping the environment, not living in yesteryear. Every person who takes mass transit , removes a car from the road. This allows those of you who must use your car to have a less congested road to travel on; you can get to places faster and use less gas. That is how buses and trains help everyone. You don't have to think of the obvious environmental benefits of mass transit to appreciate the bues and trains. The train will bring fewer cars in to Ann Arbor and will decrease the need for UM parking structures. Local residents will have less crowded roads to travel on and better air quality as a result. Win, win.. Mr Anglin trains are good! Trains might need to be subsidized just like your roads are subsidized for you to drive your car on..just like the price of gas is subsidized..just like the buses are subsidized. You like the subsidy that benefits you but not the subsidy that benefits someone else. The difference is that the train subsidy will not come from local dollars. All we need to do is create a train station for the trains that will be coming to stop at. The State of Michigan has started investing in trains and if we delay any longer, Ann Arbor will miss the boat and not be able to apply for federal aid in the construction of the station. At the actual forum, It was absolutely offensive to hear the comments made about the desires for the students to go away so they can relax in THEIR town. If Kunselman , Anglin and Eaton (and Lumm and Kalaspathy) want to live in a small, little town where those young whippersnappers are not around they should go live in Manchester, Tecumseh, Dundee, Saline etc. They can see their property vales plummet, walk through one block, dying downtowns , wait years to sell a house and have to drive over an hour to work. In those towns they can relax without having to yell "Get off my lawn" to anyone under the age of 40.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:29 a.m.
The students pay little to nothing in taxes but get to decide how this town is run. Regarding your assertion that the democrats as the party looking out for our environment. Do you read this site regularly? If you do you would learn things like dumping gallons of oil/fuel into the sewer will only cost you a $100 fine (and that is if you get caught). The dumping of Dioxin (which has over decades spread out and poisoned the ground water to the west of the city) by Gelman occurred under Gov. Blanchard and it is clear that our environmental laws were a joke then and still are today. Hee haw!
SonnyDog09
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:43 p.m.
"When you pay for the actual cost of gas just like the europeans do, then you can complain about train subsidies." The difference between what Europeans and Americans pay for gasoline is the amount of taxes that European governments add to gasoline. Failing to tax at the European level is not a subsidy!
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:33 p.m.
Well he only made it one time at that event (which is what you were talking about), and again it was well received by those in attendance (real Democrats). And I agree with him. I don't hate the students, but summer sure is a nice break with the reduced congestion, etc. It's actually a pretty common feeling among people who have lived here any length of time. Don't try to recast it into something that it isn't.
Forward Progress
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:23 p.m.
He makes that comment all the time, this was not the first time. He has even said it at the council table. It was not a slip of the tongue, he actually believes it.
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:16 p.m.
You are really overplaying that Kunselman comment about students leaving in summer. I'll remind you that it got laughs and applause from an audience comprising Democrats, and also remind you that Grand got neither at any point. To hear you tell it you'd think he called for dissolution of the university. And it wasn't "comments", it was "comment" singular.
jcj
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:15 p.m.
For someone with a moniker forward progress you are putting forth some archaic thoughts.
jcj
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:13 p.m.
"Kunselman, Anglin and Eaton have such a warped idea of what a democrat is. Democrats are for helping the environment" I always thought Democrats were all required to think the same way! And now the secret is out! Watch yourself Forward you will be outed for giving away the secret!
Forward Progress
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:13 p.m.
We do not have a train station that can handle commuter trains or the expected volume. Pretending that we do does not make that so, it only puts us behind the curve. The more convenient a mode of transportation is, the more people will use it. People are not going to want something they can't envision. We know that trains work on the east coast. They decrease traffic, they decrease parking. Same concept here. Roads are subsidized, gas is subsidized, and trains will probably have to be subsidized by the feds also. That is just a fact of life. When you pay for the actual cost of gas just like the europeans do, then you can complain about train subsidies.
mtlaurel
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:06 p.m.
"all we need to do is create a train station for the trains to stop at" Are you joking? trains that really work for people are parts of interconnected systems. We are far short of that. Train and bus travel here is expensive/time consuming/disjointed. In and out of downtown Chicago for a surbanite worker with a pass is a far cry from people in SE Michigan deciding to give up their auto and take a train-then do what? after you are let off on Fuller Rd or downtown Detroit.....??
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:01 p.m.
Forward, we HAVE a train station. Building a new train station when there already is one is not environmentally sound. People who ride buses aren't driving cars, correct. That doesn't mean 5 buses is better than one bus. 5 buses is only better than one bus if 5 times more people use the buses. 10 peole riding a 50-person capacity bus might not be better than 10 cars. Don't buses cost more to run, use more gas, have more exhaust, more metal, more mainetenance, etc. than cars? You do the same thing the money wasters do; you yell that buses and trains are good, so get more of them. Anglin is doing what people with common sense do; he wants to make sure the need is actually there, and the payoff (economic and environmental) will actually happen. "Build it and they will come" doesnt work. By the way, anyone scheduled a meeting yet at the big new meeting room in the new bus station? I wonder how much wil be spend on big screen monitors and teleconferencing equipment and comfortable chairs.
Alan Goldsmith
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:45 p.m.
Sabra Briere, where were you when AATA spent million on the failed County wide plan? Where are you now, worrying about poor poor Ypsilanti being taxed to death but not a word about Ann Arbor taxpayers? Why does "decent transportation options" mean paying more to pick up the slack for Ypsilanti and not addressing efficiency issues within AATA? Where were you when AATA was ready to give away hundreds of millions of dollars in Ann Arbor taxpayer assets to a County transportation authority? You got what you wanted by cozying up to the Mayor's friends--a lack of opposition from his supporters for the August Democratic primary. But if you think Ann Arbor taxpayers are going to fall for your support of raising taxes and paying for other areas who won't, you're inhaling bus fumes.
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:26 p.m.
Sabra Briere, why do bus riders pay so little of the cost of the bus system they are using (only about 25%)? Is that fair? I too would like to have to only pay 25% of my transportation costs
Sabra C Briere
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 8:22 p.m.
Bcar, I don't know who you heard speak at the North Main community meeting on May 22; I wasn't at that meeting. I hope you'll come to the meeting tomorrow (June 12) at 6:30 pm at the Community Center, though. I don't plan to speak, but will be present.
Bcar
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:52 p.m.
I had to listen to her speak at the north main meeting.... never in my life have I ever heard a more rambling and incoherent thought process without a single point...but it was very eloquently written, LOL. Glad she fits in so well with our city council and mayor.
Nicholas Urfe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:34 p.m.
I do not want to subsidize Ypsi. Stop wasting my money by forcing transit on other communities. How much was wasted on the failed AATA expansion planning?
Nicholas Urfe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 7:22 p.m.
They can do whatever they'd like, but they should pay for it. Whether by driving their own cars, raising their own taxes; whatever.
oyxclean
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 3:57 p.m.
I agree Nicholas. All the people from Ypsi should just ride their bikes in on wonderful Washtenaw.
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:30 p.m.
So then you want us to subsidize the downtown businesses (again) by helping to pay to get their help to work? How about if they just raise their prices and pass it along to the tourists instead? Are there "many jobs going unfilled" right now? I sure haven't heard anything about that.
Basic Bob
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:52 p.m.
Public transit is a good way for employees at Ann Arbor businesses to get to work from Ypsilanti, Pittsfield, and the ring of subsidized housing on the edge of the city. How many Burns Park and OWS residents want to work a part-time minimum-wage job downtown? Many jobs will be unfilled if you force people to maintain a car and pay for downtown parking for the privilege of working.
Veracity
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:20 p.m.
Both Julie Grand and Kirk Westphal will push the railroad station on Fuller Road even though it will cost Ann Arbor tax payers up to $66 million (and expect few federal or state dollars in support). If built the train station would likely service very few commuters and not a whole lot more passengers heading to Chicago. The City would have to subsidize its operation. Ann Arbor will see few benefits from a new railroad station.
talker
Sat, Jun 15, 2013 : 2:48 a.m.
You are generous to write Ann Arbor will see few benefits from a new railroad station. Whatever benefit might (but might not) result would be overwhelmed by all the negatives. You are right that we would all spend a lot of money that might benefit a few, who could be served by Michivans. People who don't want to pay increased property taxes need to vote in numbers that are larger than those who push the Fuller Road Station. I'm concerned that some people who bought houses decades ago and want to remain in their houses as they age will be priced out of their homes by one millage after another. Every extra $100+ a year paid in property taxes on fanciful items means less money that can be spent locally by a single household. That hurts local restaurants, services, and stores. For some it means one less visit to a grandchild or not going to a concert. While listing a millage sounds small, add together millage after millage and translate the amounts into real life by multiplying one year of each millage by 5 years or 10 years.
Forward Progress
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:57 p.m.
Really, no Federal or state support for a train station? How about Troy and Dearborn? They got a 100% paid for train station. You can get federal and state support if you are prepared for the request. No one is going to hand a subsidy to a city for a train station when the city lives in yesteryear and thinks they are a small, rural town when they are an actual growing and diverse city. You have to want it, work for it and ask for it. If we had out act together we too could have had a 100% paid for train station just like Dearborn and Troy. Grand and Westphal are the adults and understand how government works. Anglin, Kunselman and Eaton are the just say no party.... no to the future....no to change....no, no, no to everything!
SonnyDog09
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:18 p.m.
Why is it news that all candidates who are members of the ruling party agree that taxes need to be raised? Have any members of the ruling party ever met a tax increase that they did not like?
DJBudSonic
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:58 a.m.
Ms. Briere is 100% interested in raising your taxes. At the same forum where she told you to get ready for an AATA millage, no doubt supported by her recent appointee Ms. Susan Baskett, she also told you how proud she was of raising your taxes through her sidewalk repair millage. Some people won't be happy until we have tax parity with Ypsilanti; like the D1 zoning she supported, taxes are associative, if that building (or tax) across the street (or down the road) is 14 stories (64 mils) high, ours can be too! A voter-rejected expansion of the AATA is coming back, one city at a time, somehow for these folks voter-rejection is not enough - oh thats right, when a resolution is defeated at the ballot, we need to have an opportunity to hear those minority voices.
talker
Sat, Jun 15, 2013 : 2:35 a.m.
We had paid to replace sidewalk slabs about two years before the city required it. Fortunately, I'd taken photos of the spaces with the old slabs removed and of the completed job. Over a period of a few years many homeowners and owners of rental properties paid to fix sidewalk slabs. Those who were slow in fixing the slabs didn't have to pay the amount of money we did. The millage was supposed to be there to replace slabs only after people had paid for new slabs once. Instead, some people who hadn't complied previously got new slabs. Some of the rest of us had edges of slabs that didn't need work filed down anyway. It was great to have curb cuts improved, but the quality of the embellishments are deficient and not holding up.. We don't have a corner house, but we know of at least two places where there was significant damage to sidewalk slabs near corner houses. Unfortunately, some of the work done won't last as long as expected. Some of the work done actually damaged better work that had been done only a few years before.
DJBudSonic
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 12:51 p.m.
Ryan, once again you straddle the line between reporter and apologist. Why is that?
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:22 p.m.
Thanks for the link Ryan. So I guess what you're saying is the decrease in the millage specifically for debt service was to offset the sidewalk millage? It wasn't because the interest rate went down, or principal paid off of the debt they're servicing? Just wanted to clarify. Do they specifically mention that in the meeting? I'll just watch the video if so. Thanks again.
Ryan J. Stanton
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 7:02 p.m.
Here's the action: http://tinyurl.com/qead5bh With the local and state economy improving, the city predicts property tax revenues will climb by 2.3 percent next year — even with the planned 0.125-mill decrease in the city's tax rate. The reduction in the tax rate offsets the increase the city saw from the new 0.125-mill sidewalk millage approved by voters in 2011. I'll point out the city's 16.572-mill tax rate for 2013-14 compares to the year 2000 rate of 17.132 mills, so your taxes have gradually gone down over the years, not up (contrary to popular belief.)
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 4:19 p.m.
Ryan, can you tell us what action was taken to lower the total property tax so that the sidewalk millage did not add to it?
M-Wolverine
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:02 p.m.
Wait, neighborhood sidewalks have been fixed since the new mileage went into effect? I haven't seen any; I've juste seen a bunch of slabs shaved down in unsightly and unsafe angles. Hardly any replaced. Like was required for homeowners before the mileage. Why does the city not have to fix them to the same specifications homeowners did? And why isn't AnnArbor.com asking THESE questions?
Ryan J. Stanton
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:43 p.m.
It's fair to note Sabra Briere put the sidewalk millage issue in a different context than being proud about raising taxes. She saw it as unfair that some residents were being required by the city in years past to pay a lot of money, in some cases upwards of $1,000 or more, to fix the sidewalk slabs in front of their homes if they became damaged -- slabs that everyone in the neighborhood benefits from using. She said she was glad homeowners now pay about $13 a year on average for the new sidewalk millage and that no one has to disproportionately shell out large amounts of money anymore to fix neighborhood sidewalks -- the costs are spread out among all users. And in fact, the City Council has taken action to lower the city's overall millage rate this year to offset the new sidewalk millage, so you're not paying more taxes now.
DonBee
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:53 a.m.
Lets see: 1) First the water and sewage rates go up 2) The County commission wants to raise taxes to cover their costs 3) The City wants to raise the transit tax 4) The school district want more money for a "enhancement" millage 5) The state wants more money to fix the roads 6) The federal government will start charging under the affordable health care program next year 7) Various townships and small communities will need to raise taxes to cover the higher cost of using the Sheriff's patrols next year 8) The federal government is talking about higher gas taxes 9) The FCC is talking about extending some taxes that only apply to landlines now to mobile phones 10) The Federal government let the payroll taxes return to their prior levels 11) Other federal agencies are talking about higher fees and taxes... It will get tough even in Ann Arbor to continue to raise taxes.
snark12
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:36 p.m.
DonBee, the ratio between your monthly mortgage payment and your property taxes may indicate a rising property value more than anything. I also hope you refinanced sometime in the last 20 years to take advantage of lower rates, so that will make a big difference, too.
DonBee
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 7:02 p.m.
I looked at my mortgage and my taxes today. 20 years ago when we moved into the home - property taxes were 2 months of mortgage payment. Last year the property taxes were equal to 6 months of mortgage payment.
tommy_t
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 3:49 p.m.
...and the various tax ring outs will continue to expand unless the residents react and restore some control. It is becoming oppressive.
Solitude
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:20 p.m.
It's time to buy tea and move to Boston.
Jack Gladney
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:53 a.m.
Two words: Bus fare.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:12 a.m.
It is perfectly clear that the U would like to end its bus service and have the AATA take over the route saving it money. A 3 billion/year entity which constructed a 2nd campus (which provides no tax revenue to the city) can pay for its own dang buses instead of dumping the bill on the city which has 1/10 the revenue.
spaghettimonsters
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:32 p.m.
The normal fare is already too high. I *do* suspect that AATA isn't getting what it should/could from UM for ferrying around the students, grad students, profs, hospital employees, and researchers around A2/Ypsi. Perhaps, in addition to a modest millage increase, there should be greater pressure placed on the University (don't laugh) to pay its fair share for transporting all of these people.
a2grateful
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:21 a.m.
"Ypsilanti on its own cannot increase its millage rate," Briere said, "because it already has taxed itself to the ceiling." So, once again, the plan is for Ann Arbor taxpayers to pay for expanded transit outside of Ann Arbor. Where have we heard this before? Hint: our previous gloriously failed transit plan. Everyone was in until they were asked to pay. Sidebar: We still cannot traverse Ann Arbor without convoluted hub transfers. Isn't our bus service grand. "In Ypsilanti, 35.2 mills of taxes are levied by the city, compared to 16.6 mills in Ann Arbor. Ypsilanti's total homestead tax rate of 64.4 mills also beats Ann Arbor's 45.7 mills." Ypsilanti property values are much lower, so their millage rate is higher, just like Detroit! Does anyone see a correlation between rising millage rates and lower overall property values? Which comes first?
The Picker
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:57 a.m.
C.mon Ann Arbor you slackers, You haven't taxed yourselves to the ceiling(death) like Ypsilanti. Whats up with that?
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:56 a.m.
Everyone recall that: 1) The AATA already spent lots of money on trying for that countywide expansion which had ZERO justification. 2) The AATA already tried to sell an increase in trips; they DOUBLED service along one of the most popular, most-used routes they have, and the increase in ridership was something like 14%. So a 100% increase netted a 14% increase in ridership; and this was their busiest route 3) The AATA has already renovated/expanded at least 2 (and I think it might be more) maintenance shops 4) The AATA already DEMOLISHED the downtown station to build another one atop its rubble. One which, for some reason, includes big meeting rooms. Because I guess everyone loves meeting at the bus station They already have plenty of money. They have been trying to sell getting more money for a long time now. They failed. So they continue to try. Show us an increase in ridership that has a better return than 14% on a 100% increase in service, and maybe people should think about it. Until then, this should be a nonstarter. I would also advise some people to start asking some very pointed and repeated questions about the GetDowntown program, which spends significant amounts of money for, from what I've heard, very poor results. Don't fall for the "mass transit is important" sell job. So is art. But the city's very bad at spending money on art. So the city should not get money for art. Mass transit is also important. That doesn't mean they need more money for it or to expand it. Facts, figures, and honest numbers about ridership can justify this. Not just claims about how how mass transit makes cities vibrant.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 10:04 a.m.
"So a 100% increase netted a 14% increase in ridership; and this was their busiest route." I am disgusted by this. It is clear that they have reached the point of diminishing returns but want to continue expanding only to increase their own fiefdom. Voters in adjacent communities could pony up more money to pay for it, but they sure don't seem to want to, leaving us with the bill.
A Voice of Reason
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:40 p.m.
They cannot stop spending money, can they! I agree.
Bcar
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:55 a.m.
Here's an idea... how about the people who use the AATA PAY to use the AATA!?!? Ive never once taken a bus in A2, I walk or ride my bike, and sometimes drive. Why should I have to pay for someone to ride the bus? increase the fare! duh... oh wait, thats far to simple and logical for the DPRA2...
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:47 p.m.
Has anyone heard motorists pay gas taxes to maintain and repair the roads, Those who use cars for transportation do not come close to having 75% of their transportation paid by someone else as do bus riders. That is basically not fair!
Roger Kuhlman
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 : 1:42 p.m.
In a theoretical world public transportation might have environmental benefits and make the transportation system more efficient. Yet in the real world that has not proven to be the case except in a very few specialized circumstances where high population density like in New York city or Tokyo allows these advantages to be realized. In suburbanized settings like the greater Ann Arbor-Ypsilanti area mass transit has always been an expensive waste of money that provides few environmental benefits. There are far better ways to protect the natural environment that throw it away on public transit.
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:04 p.m.
Thanks Ryan. That seems surprisingly cheap, and I'm assuming it's a hardware cost, not including installation.
Ryan J. Stanton
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 4:23 p.m.
@RUKiddingMe — The city tells me the "fix-it" bike stations cost about $900 and were paid from the city's alternative transportation fund.
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:10 p.m.
At some level maybe, but there is a pretty wide spectrum of what they consider to be "good bus service". Some think "good bus service" would allow everybody to go car-less. Some think "good bus service" would cover the entire county. Some think it just means some modest improvements so that the city proper (the ones paying the tab) has improved coverage.
Ryan J. Stanton
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:01 p.m.
@Brad - actually you're hearing every candidate, regardless of political factions, advocate for good bus service in this story.
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:47 p.m.
Ever notice how the devil always seems to advocate in the same direction as the council party?
Bcar
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:46 p.m.
Im with RUKM... It is not that I dont want to pay for things I dont use, I understand the whole road/school thing so dont waste your time explaining that concept. What I DO know is that the DPRA2 gov't is totally inefficient at running anything and I don't want them to have a single cent more of my $ until they get their crap together and priorities straight. And now my A2 insane property tax will be helping ypsi residents as well so they can ride AATA???
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:35 p.m.
I agree that not everything can be paid for only by those using it. Clearly. I know that even though I don't have kids we need good schools. What I CAN say, however, is that it makes sense to be dissatisfied and demand action when money is wasted, misspent, and the asking price for mismanagement continues to go up. These schools aren't looking so great right now, for instance. And AATA has NOT delivered anything close to justification for more money. Quite the opposite, in fact. Ryan, would it be possible for soemone to tell me the cost of installation and expected maintenance on those fix-it bike stations that were recently installed (either per or total)? I have been unable to find this out.
Ryan J. Stanton
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:34 p.m.
Allow me to play devil's advocate for a minute: Using the same logic that bus fares alone should cover 100% of the costs of running a transit system, shouldn't we then have tolls on all our roads, bridges and sidewalks and bike lanes, etc., to make sure users of those modes are paying 100% of the costs as well, and others are not stuck paying for things they don't use? Public transit is in good company with roads, bridges, sidewalks, bike lanes, nonmotorized paths, trains, airports, etc., in being subsidized by tax dollars regardless of whether one individual uses a particular mode of transportation or not. The basic argument you'll hear transit proponents make is the general public benefits from having an efficient and diversified transportation system, and an investment in transit that can reduce congestion by taking more cars off the road, improve air quality, and as a matter of equity provide transportation options to those without the means to own an automobile, can be seen as a benefit to all, including people strictly using other modes. We haven't yet seen the details on this particular millage or what exactly it might fund, so don't confuse what I just said as an argument for whatever might be proposed. Everybody will have an opportunity to judge the proposal on its merit when it's eventually presented, and I'm as curious as the next person what it might look like.
Nicholas Urfe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:23 p.m.
Newsflash: The roads and sidewalks you walk, ride and drive upon are subsidized by others. Those dozens and dozens of city parks? Nope. They were subsidized by others. So it isn't logical to expect AATA users to solely bear the sole responsibility for the service. However, it isn't logical to ask A2 residents to subsidize ypsi.
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:48 a.m.
I use AATA, and I think our bus service is already pretty good. Our fire, emergency medical services, police, roads? Not where they need to be. Please place focus on the basics of good city government first! To have the *minimum* staffing required under ideal circumstances to meet national standards for fire and emergency medical response times, we two more FTEs on top of the 10 we've added back after the Mayor's failed "little experiment" at cutting public safety services. To have proactive policing and not reactive policing, we need beat cops patrolling downtown and more investigators to run down perps. More than half our city roads are in such disrepair they need to be completely rebuilt from scratch, and key road infrastructure hasn't been built. If you haven't read them already, more detail on each of these topics is discussed in these columns: www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/ann-arbors-road-planning-helps-bicyclists-but-ignores-key-road-needs/ http://annarbor.com/news/opinion/ann-arbors-mayor-is-wrong-to-support-dda-over-fire-police/ We need to finish the job of electing a majority to city council of people in synch with this strategy or we'll get more boondoggles from our Mayor, who has completely different priorities!
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 5:16 p.m.
@uabchris: the link works great! People driving 49 miles per hour down that street? Very dangerous. Keep up the good work!
uabchris
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 4:50 p.m.
@ Stephen, If the link does not work simply search FB for : Safety On Seventh Thanks!
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 4:17 p.m.
@Peregrine: What I mean by what I wrote is, "To have proactive policing and not *just* reactive policing, we need beat cops patrolling downtown and more investigators to run down perps."
uabchris
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 3:57 p.m.
@Peregrine - ...so we wait until AFTER people are injured/killed to enforce, say, speedlimits such as 45-50mph (in a 30mph zone) we see on 7th St?
Peregrine
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:26 p.m.
@Ranzini: Did you really say, "To have proactive policing and not reactive policing, we need beat cops patrolling downtown and more investigators to run down perps." You seriously don't want reactive policing? You don't want arrests? You don't want investigations? Both of those are reactive. Sure, I'd like proactive as well as reactive, but never proactive in lieu of reactive.
RUKiddingMe
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 2:01 p.m.
Right?
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:45 p.m.
And speaking of "repeating over and over" ...
uabchris
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:04 p.m.
Stephen, http://tinyurl.com/SafetyOnSeventhSt You also must have a Facebook account...thanks!
Stephen Lange Ranzini
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:39 a.m.
@uabchris: That link didn't work. You might consider using www.tinyurl.com. It's free and takes 10 seconds. I'd like to read the link you were pointing us to.
uabchris
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:35 a.m.
Stephen, great points on reactive vs proactive policing..I have great examples of that very issue here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/SOS.SafetyonSeventhSt/
DennisP
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:09 a.m.
Agreed. The use of a millage to supplement bus service to another community "unable to afford it" when your own city has significant financial needs is not only misdirected, it is myopic. It's part of the superficiality that we see in government. Put something out there that you can tout as "green" or "sustainable", suck in more dollars for discretionary spending and that can disappear in the AATA maze and then try again to explain the failure of the system by declaring it needs county wide support and run for a county millage again. The out-county communities said loudly they didn't want a county wide system but AATA insisted on its own bureaucratic growth spending thousands on studies that were crafted to support a conclusion already rendered by the AATA. In the meantime, fire stations are threatened and police are told to make do with what they have. Get fundamental city services to residents back in order before looking to these added features.
Basic Bob
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 10:41 a.m.
Kunselman is a member of city council. Once the council has made a decision, he needs to back down and support the decision. His endless criticism of past decisions is childish and unprofessional. Time for him to go.
Jay Thomas
Wed, Jun 12, 2013 : 9:54 a.m.
Uh Bob... your understanding of participatory democracy needs some work. This isn't China where everything is rubberstamped (well, except for the Regents...).
Brad
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:08 p.m.
@Forward - you'll recall that comment got pretty good applause, too. We appreciate that those who profit from the students may have a different opinion.
jcj
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:06 p.m.
"Eli Cooper is not a public figure" Is that right? Then why is his name in the forefront every time public transportation is mentioned? Is he paid with public funds? Does he help shape transportation policy? When he stops proposing grandiose transportation projects he will see less public criticism. Above criticism? Unique idea.
Forward Progress
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 1:05 p.m.
I completely agree Basic Bob. He does not have the tact or common sense to understand why that is so wrong. Running for political office does not mean you get to resort to Jr. High behavior. A classic Kunelman comment that he also said at the forum was something like 'he waits all year for summer so that the students go home and then he come out of his house and enjoy downtown." Well councilman, I wait all summer for fall to come so people like you can go back inside and I can enjoy the town with the students and other residents who love Ann Arbor!
Basic Bob
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:43 p.m.
His public attack on a city employee is unprofessional. Eli Cooper is not a public figure and should not be saddled with the blame for a failed election result. Criticize John Hieftje all you want.
Veracity
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 12:16 p.m.
The issue at stake has to be considered before accusing a City Councilman of being childish. And what exactly has Stephen Kunselman done that you think is unprofessional? Actually, the sides of issues that Councilman Kunselman has taken have been popular with citizens and neighborhood groups even if his positions irritated the mayor, who, of course, has his own agenda. Councilman Kunselman has done a good job representing his constituents interests which is why he has been elected and re-elected several times.
DennisP
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 : 11:03 a.m.
Serously? They are running for political office. So, under your strictures, when the Council votes all discussion ends on a matter for all time by anyone on the Council? Even when running for political office? So when does it come time to criticize the actions and decisions of the Council? It is the very nature and essence of politics that candidates discuss openly their opinions on the actions of the bodies or persons in government. How else will we know where they stand on an issue or be able to hold them to their words when in office? Admittedly, you need a shovel when these many candidates get together for a political debate, but that is the essential American way.