9 Hutaree militia members to stay in jail for time being
Nine Midwestern militia members accused of conspiring against the government must stay locked up while prosecutors challenge an order that would release them until trial, a federal appeals court ruled Monday.
A three-judge panel of the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati said it was continuing a temporary stay of a Detroit U.S. district court's decision to free the Hutaree members pending trial.
The ruling made clear the panel wants consideration of the government's appeal to move swiftly.
"Because of the importance of the issues presented, the Clerk of the Court shall establish an expedited schedule for the submission and consideration of any additional materials needed to facilitate appellate review of the merits," the ruling reads.
The decision is at least a temporary victory for prosecutors, who claim the nine are a risk to the public. They're charged with conspiracy to commit sedition, or rebellion, against the government and the attempted use of weapons of mass destruction.
U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts had ordered electronic monitors and set many strict conditions for their release from jail. The militia members have been in custody since late March.
Six of the defendants are from Michigan, including alleged group leader David Stone of Lenawee County's Dover Township, two are from Ohio and one is from Indiana.
Much of the government's evidence made public so far shows militia members talking about killing police officers and attacking officers who turn up for the funeral. No specific plot with specific targets has been disclosed.
Defense attorneys say the conversations may contain repulsive speech and violent scenarios. But the talk also is peppered with laughter, "childish sounds and noises" and "detail-barren" schemes, attorneys Richard Helfrick and Todd Shanker have written.
From top left, David Brian Stone Sr., 44, of Clayton, Mich,; David Brian Stone Jr. of Adrian, Mich,; Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio,; Tina Mae Stone; and bottom row from left, Michael David Meeks, 40, of Manchester; Kristopher T. Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; Joshua John Clough, 28, of Blissfield; and Thomas William Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.
Comments
Ricebrnr
Wed, May 12, 2010 : 9:41 a.m.
I have stated and I will state once again, I am waiting for the evidence to come out and make no judgements on the guilt or innocence of these specific people. My only concern is that what has been released so far STINKS and recent and past history shows that if we want to PREVENT an Orwellian nightmare that WE must be vigilant. Categorizing people is an easy way to make THEM out of US. It's easier to do things to or allow things to happen to THEM isn't it? http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/index.html http://reason.com/blog/2008/01/22/cleveland-dea-informant-scanda http://truthinjustice.org/corrupt-FBI.htm http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/04/judge_sickened_by_raw_brutalit.html Nope no Orwellian nightmares in the US to worry about. I'll go stick my head back in the sand...
Rod Johnson
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 7:31 p.m.
"Good to know someone "in power" can put their thumbs on the scales of Lady Justice. Clearly the terrorists have won." Yeah! Because no one has *ever* been denied bail before in American history and that's the only reason we haven't lives in an Orwellian nightmare... until now. Why even the Unabomber... oh, wait.
clownfish
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 2:51 p.m.
Sometimes defending people's rights leaves a harsh taste in the mouth but like medicine does not make it any less necessary. try Homeopathy...tastes like sugar. The terrorists win when we live in fear, not when we make minor adjustments to how we handle suspects. I too have a problem removing rights for a select group of suspects, but I think the changes in question are minor compared to other things that have been done in the recent past, including rendering Canadians to Syria and putting Iraq generals in sleeping bags until dead. As far as I can see "soft" interrogation and civilian court systems have done FAR more to imprison terrorists and gain intel than the "24" brand of justice favored by the Cheneys, Palin and the neo-conservative pundits. What I find most interesting is that many of those people that supported those previous overreaches seem to be the same people that want the Hutaree released because they are "just folks" and "were only talking".
Ricebrnr
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 11:16 a.m.
Well you know what they say about assumptions... No, I will not be joining a group that regardless of its name supports only some of the Bill of Rights, thanks. To paraphrase Clownfish's excellent comment: Sometimes defending people's rights leaves a harsh taste in the mouth but like medicine does not make it any less necessary.
Edward R. Murrow's ghost
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 10:03 a.m.
@Ricebrnr: Can I assume, then, that the ACLU will be expecting your joining its roster and donating money so that it can defend the Hutaree's civil liberties against this over-zealous prosecution? Good Night and Good Luck
bedrog
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 9:40 a.m.
riceburnr...my final word on this thread: as you are no doubt aware in logic there is a fallacy called 'reductio ad absurdem'..i.e. yes one can follow any logic...mine or yours or joe blow's..to an unhappy conclusion. but in the real world, especially in an age of runaway fanaticism and illogic, the decision on the hutarees ( and my previous post) are pragmatic and reasonable.
Ricebrnr
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 9:29 a.m.
I agree that I would rather live PRESENTLY in the US than just about any other place on Earth but your statements taken to their logical conclusions beg another naive question. Is the road to Hell paved with good intentions? How many well intended steps before the present US is not so different than some of the other countries you mentioned? I am less concerned with jihadhist or militia mores than our own. "Compromise" on some rights and morals is subversion no matter how you look at it and it is a journey best not taken.
bedrog
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 9:12 a.m.
ricebrnr...you asked me a question. my answer to the,frankly. rather naive equation of victim and perpetrator: 'who started it' and even more importantly ' who'd stop first 'if some degree of solution were reached are both highly relevant questions.. both jihadists and militia types have gone on their respective 'tears' more from imagined than real grievances, target innappropriate, and often random, subjects and are enamored of conflict itself ( and believe me...i know a bit about this stuff on i guess what could be called a 'professional'level,and also am quite familiar with orwell).....also neither category of fanatic is subject to meaningful, self critical internal 'due process' or regulation, and certainly dont accord such to their intended targets. in contrast, our government/police forces are indeed subject to such regulation,oversight and remedy of wrongdoing ( ala the persecution of abu ghraib guards, investigations of drone strikes that kill civilians, the no doubt voluminous courtroom chat about the hutarees etc etc... for me, then, the potential 'abuse of the liberties' of clearly violent extremists is trumped by the real protection of public safety by responsible and sane officialdom who have wisely chosen to keep them locked up until a full trial. and yes...i agree that not all 'officialdom is responsible...burma, the sudan, nazi germany etc being cases in point...but the u.s., certainly under obama..and grudgingly even bush.. is not such a place remotely. put another way, i'd rather be alive in the u.s. as prently constituted than dead ( albeit with the dubious posthumous 'pleasure' of knowing crackpots are free to spew their venom.
jondhall
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 8:56 a.m.
There is a very fine line between "big brother", freedom, and safety, I trust we be very careful where we are treading. One never knows where that next step is going to lead us. To live in fear is not to live!
Ricebrnr
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 8:41 a.m.
@ Susan, great reference! Rosemary Stewart Stafford regarding a white supremacist: It crossed my mindI could shoot him and nobody would ever know. And then I thought, YEP and then they would have won, because YOU would have become a hater. @ Bedrog So the hater begets the terrorist, begets more haters? At what point is there no difference between "US" and THEM? I reiterate if that point is now, the terrorists have indeed won.
clownfish
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 8:41 a.m.
SUSAN, thanks for the tip on RSS. She showed a lot of courage meeting with the "just folks" of the CIM, Kingdom Identity Ministries is a Politically Incorrect Christian Identity outreach ministry to God's chosen race (true Israel, the White, European peoples). Sometimes defending peoples right to free speech leaves a harsh taste in the mouth.
Ricebrnr
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 7:10 a.m.
No one has apologized for anyone yet in this thread, but in any case our nation would be better served by less watching "Dazed and Confused" type media and more reading of classics like, Animal Farm or 1984. Also while this may have started under Bush II era policies, that does not negate nor mitigate concerns over it's continuation and exacerbation under Holder in this case. The Democrats have a long history of infringing civil rights too. It doesn't matter which party, we still need to watch out.
susan
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 6:51 a.m.
The News should do a story on a woman featured on NPR last month named Rosemary Stewart Stafford. She went undercover as a right winged, Christian militia supporter and found out all kind of things about this movement that will chill you to the core. Google her name and check it out!
bedrog
Tue, May 11, 2010 : 5:49 a.m.
hutaree apologists who claim to be 'standing up for liberty', and similarly accuse those who want dangerous people out of commission of helping 'terrorists win' are, in the name of that great piece of cinema 'dazed and confused'. yes indeedy...im delighted they are staying in the slammer.
Ricebrnr
Mon, May 10, 2010 : 6:44 p.m.
"Suspects rights under US constitution may need changes WASHINGTON: In the wake of the Times Square bombing plot, the Obama administration said on Sunday it wants to work with Congress on possible limitations of the constitutional rights afforded to terrorism suspects even for American citizens. - ap" Looks like some of you are going to get and/or are getting your wishes! YAY! Good to know someone "in power" can put their thumbs on the scales of Lady Justice. Clearly the terrorists have won.