Jessica Knowlton

Sun, Apr 25, 2010 : 6:53 a.m.

Liz Margolis said the district would release the names of those notified after the Wednesday meeting. Has it been released yet? What is the link?

Edward R. Murrow's ghost

Fri, Apr 23, 2010 : 10:43 p.m.

josber wrote: "Some people would view your ideas as code for racism." You are EXACTLY right, josber.

Edward R. Murrow's ghost

Fri, Apr 23, 2010 : 10:40 p.m.

Privatize all school functions!! For profit businesses are always more efficient than is the public sector. Enron, MCI, Global Crossing, the entire airline industry, Bank of America, Blackwater, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Goldman Sachs, GM, Chrysler, KBR, Haliburton, and many others provide great models for the honesty, efficiency, and productivity our schools need.

stunhsif

Fri, Apr 23, 2010 : 8:21 p.m.

@debling, What you say makes too much sense so none of it will come to fruition. We somehow, God willing will get the MEA fired and turn most of your ideas into reality!!!

josber

Fri, Apr 23, 2010 : 8:23 a.m.

debling, I don't care one way or another about a lot of your ideas, but the idea that special ed belong somewhere else and out of people's way is currently something you would have to petition your congressperson to change. We've come a long way as a society regarding disabilities and the disporportionality problem in the district are something people are trying to fix, not institutionalize. Some people would view your ideas as code for racism.

ShadowManager

Thu, Apr 22, 2010 : 1:11 p.m.

The City of Ann Arbor needs to hire the laid-off teachers as meter readers/ticket writers to enforce the new parking meter hours. Problem solved.

debling

Thu, Apr 22, 2010 : 11:51 a.m.

I truly believe we are at the end of an era of "BIG EDUCATION". Massive spending, luxury Taj Mahal schools, bloated administration, lucrative contracts with little accountability, skyrocking health care and pension costs. The current layoffs aside, all school districts will have to deal with long term structural changes as it is clear the taxpayer cannot come up with enough money to fund all of the "wishes". I see the changes to come to be: 1. Construction of less expensive functional schools (not castles like Saline or Skyline) 2. 100% pay to play athletics and clubs 3. Elimination of taxpayer funded busing 4. Outsourcing of as many support functions as possible to private businesses such as custodial, maintenance, office administrative, etc. 5. Outsourcing of some teaching functions, especially specialists. 6. Rotating teaching assignments in multiple schools or districts 7. Year round school 8. Elimination of tenure. Employment based on year to year performance and achievements. 9. Performance based compensation (including a reward system), not based on senority or educational level 10. Elimination of streamlining or integration of children with special needs into mainstream classes. This way special needs children get the help they need and our schools focus on driving toward excellence. 11. Moving benefits (health/pension/etc) to be in line with other Michigan private businesses. 12. Elimination of extra pay for coaching or supervising clubs. It's part of your job. 13. Reduction of administration district wide. 14. Holding adminstration accountable for cost reduction 15. Use of electronic materials and media instead of buying expensive books and supplies. 16. Online courses. Let's get serious about making real changes to education instead of dwelling on legacy programs and policies.

Bonabee

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 8:42 p.m.

Belboz-where do you think special education students should take these cuts to shoulder the burden? Their services are required by law and are spelled out in legal documents that are crafted by parents and teachers. Crafted to provide students what they need to be successful and productive (tax-paying!) members of society. So what should go? Textbooks on tape for the kids with dyslexia? Maybe social skills training that allows a student with autism to nail a job interview and get the position? Or speech therapy for the preschoolers with speech impediments? Physical therapy to help the kid with cerebral palsy increase their mobility (and therefore their employment options)? Or occupational therapy to help the same kid grip a pencil or use a keyboard? Maybe you're talking staffing. What about the teachers aides, who assist with feeding and toileting those with profound disabilities? Or the teachers that work with 15 kids (all with educational deficits, and usually with social skills deficits, self-care skill deficits, and/or behavioral deficits)on individual educational goals specially crafted for each student? Special education is expensive because it is highly specialized. And designed individually for each child who has a disability. Which means expensive programming, equipment, and man-hours. Yes, everyone should try to eliminate waste where they can and come up with creative and cost-saving ways to accomplish the same goals. But looking at special education as a cash cow where significant savings can be made with a few cuts is, in my opinion, short-sighted and does a disservice not only to those children it helps but also the tax base that is forced to pay up (through social welfare programs)if special education does not succeed.

josber

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 8:04 p.m.

Belboz, you must be very little acquainted with special education issues to say the things you do. No special ed student is stealing from your kids, and it is going to get very difficult for special ed students to manage to get what they need in the next few years. I can't remember I heard about how special ed student got so much extra, they were just awash in stuff they didn't need. SISS is in fact taking cuts, shifting things around. So if it is a serious discussion of cost cutting is what you want,it would have to come from compensation, not labor out.

belboz

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 7:31 p.m.

I don't think I specifically said where the funds come from, just that the sources are not identical to the general ed. For 2008, AAPS received $9.8 million from the state, $17.5 from the county, and $2 million from the Feds in grants. There are certainly other sources, but these are the ones that stood out. There is not just one source - the county milleage. It certainly is a primary source though. It certainly is tricky to determine where all of the money is going, and where it is coming from. But, I stand by my original point that SE should be a serious part of the budget cuts. Perhaps AAPS is not reporting the 399 correctly, but I can't imagine that they are too far off. If they are, then I wonder where else they have dropped the ball tracking students and funding. Especially if the milleage is going awa - the pressure is just going to get worse.

Spyker

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 4:02 p.m.

The special WISD millage that was approved 5 years ago for the purpose of funding 80% of Special Education services at local schools was a temporary millage, and is due to ramp down towards expiration beginning with the 2010-2011 school year. Local districts will have to cover 50% of the Special Ed cost from their operating funds this coming year, an increase from the 20% rate they have enjoyed recently.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 3:33 p.m.

I'm looking into getting a better explanation, because that 399 across the entire district simply does not match what I know about the number of students getting special education services even in one elementary school. Moreover, I don't think kids are divided into.95FTE general ed and.05FTE special ed when it comes to count day. There are many students who are in general ed classrooms all day every day who still have IEPs and still receive special ed services. Be that as it may, "belboz" is incorrect in the description of where the funding comes from. The bulk of the money AAPS receives for Special Ed comes from the WISD-wide special ed millage (one of three kinds of millages that districts are allowed to propose to voters in an ISD). That revenue reimburses districts for special ed services after the fact; they have to submit for reimbursement. That money would not be available otherwise, unless we passed a different millage instead. Likewise, much of the state categorical funds for special ed are there because of the Durant decision, which found the state liable for requiring local districts to provide various special ed services without providing funding. Were those services not required by law, I have no confidence that the money would otherwise be available for education. Finally, all districts are required (or expected) to levy 18 mills of local property tax on commercial property. The state assumes you do, and covers the difference between that and your foundation allowance. AAPS also is allowed to levy local taxes on homestead property to collect the $1,234 "hold harmless" amount that was set in 1994. These millages are collected locally and stay local, but they represent the expected local contribution to the foundation allowance. On average, districts statewide collect one fourth of their own funding with local property taxes, and get the remainder from the state. Because of AAPS's higher tax base, we collect about half of our own funds locally, with the rest paid by the state. So: if we were not providing special ed services, we would most likely not have that revenue for other needs. And no, AAPS does not generate the money. My grade-school children are not generating money either. So what? I invest in my kids to ensure a better future for them and our family; I invest in schools to ensure a better future for all of us. Public schools are something we the public do to serve us the public now and in the future. Investing in education for every American has always been one of the best aspects of our country, and we've been working to expand that promise with every generation.

belboz

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 1:32 p.m.

Whether it is general ed or special ed, AAPS gets most of the money from State or Federal sources. So, when they spend on general education - and talk of spending per pupil - AAPS documents what they spend and report it, regardless of the dozens of sources. AAPS doesn't raise the money for general education from a local bake sale - it is provided to them. The same with special ed. Special ed may have some different sources than general ed, but it is all from the same source in the long run, and none of it is generated by AAPS. They only spend it. As an extreme, if there were no special education program in michigan, than that $34.4 million would (hopefully, but you never know with government) trickle down to the general education fund. Clearly that is hypothetical, but I say it just to make my point. Looking at the state of michigan education budget, every dollar we spend on special education is a dollar we don't spend on general education. Just because SE may have different sources, education in general is under tremendous cost cutting pressures. Special Education should not be ignored leaving general education should not bear the brunt of it. Especially when we are spending $86k per special ed student.

Jack Panitch

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 12:57 p.m.

It looks to me as though some revolutionary thinker out there is about to rewrite "A Modest Proposal"... except he doesn't get the part how it was satire. "I have too long digressed, and therefore shall return to my subject. I think the advantages by the Proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance." A Modest Proposal For Preventing the Children of Poor People in Ireland, from Being a Burden on Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick By Jonathan Swift

Lynn Lumbard

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 12:11 p.m.

Belboz, I don't want to keep harping on this issue, but you claimed that Ann Arbor spends $70,000 (or $86,00) on each special ed student. If they are reimbursed by the State and Federal government for part of this cost then the AAPS District is NOT spending that sum. Yes, I am aware where the state and federal government gets its money.

Ram

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 12:08 p.m.

Belboz is making excellent points. Whether or not the money for special education comes from the Federal Government, its still OUR money as taxpayers. The Federal Government doesn't just create money out of thin air (well, it does, but thats a different story). If we view the spending of special education vs regular education (or heaven forbid, gifted education) to be at a rate we view as inefficient, it is our duty to share our concerns with those officials we elect to represent us.

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 12:08 p.m.

@YpsiLivin, Regarding school age population: I've just looked at the SEMCOG estimates, and I'm not papering over anything. In their school district population projections for 2035 (published in January 2009), they project a net decline in the school age (5-17 years old) population of the entire WISD of 4,458 children or 8.4% of the 2005 level of 52,959. For the AAPS district, they project a net loss of 1,675 school age children, for a decline of 8% from 2005-2035. But 2035 is a pretty long way to project out. The map they display highlights projected changes from 2005-2015. Using that time period, they expect the WISD to lose 2,658 school age children over that period (5%). In contrast, they project AAPS will gain 558 school age children in that time (2.7%). In any case, this counts all children, including those who are homeschooled, go to charters and go to private or parochial schools. At most, the numbers would mean the possible closing of one or two elementary buildings and maybe a middle school over the next 25 years. I don't think that's reason to start cramming students into a smaller number of buildings next year, redistricting our schools (again) and hoping we still come out ahead financially even after we lose students driven away by the upheaval. Our kids certainly won't come out ahead, with more crowded schools and more tightly packed classrooms at the elementary level. Opening up 170 schools of choice seats, to add to a student population of over 16,000, hardly seems like "papering over" anything, including capacity issues. AAPS is fortunate enough to be in a very different situation from several other districts in the WISD which have been seeing precipitous declines in enrollment. Those declines, of course, have a disproportional budget effect on those districts, compounding the problems.

josber

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 11:48 a.m.

Numbers may represent many hundreds more kids that are being helped. There are kids that are homebound, there are the kids in private schools that AAPS is obliged to help, there's kids who need a little help, and kids who need a lot, and sometimes kids outgrow their needs and sometimes they need more help as they get older. The reimbursement rate for special ed students from outside sources is above 80% so no, 34 million is not stolen from General Ed. That money comes with many strings attached, penalties, requirements, etc. In fact, if a school district is really bad about handling how they pay out that money and what service they get for it, the entire school district can have all payments to the district suspended, so settle down.

belboz

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 10:58 a.m.

My numbers are exactly what is reported by the AAPS. Not only student FTE, but budget. Absolutely I have an Axe to grind about Special Education - especially when people don't want to believe the numbers, or claim I am pulling them out of, er, thin air. The fact that people don't believe the dollars per student - numbers carefully put forth by AAPS - tells me that they too think the dollars we spend are too high. "No, that can't be right..." is just like saying "Wow, that is high. I had no idea." I am not making them up. Read the budget. Page 10. And, the mentality that "we don't pay for it" is flawed. Every dollar the Feds pay for Special Ed is one less dollar for Traditional Ed. There is not a bottomless pool of money, although many seem to think there is. The State has less money to give out. The Feds have less money to give out. All programs should be under equal, severe scrutiny. Perhaps my daughters orchestra teacher, the same person who has been a large reason why Pioneer High School Music program was named the top 3 in the nation by the Grammy Institue - would be keeping his job if Special Ed was handled more efficiently instead of just throwing laws and money at it. How many other of the 190 pink slips would not have been sent out? Regardless of my personal plight, I did not say get rid of it, I said it needs to be a serious part of the budget cuts, just as every other area is. Longer term, I hope people are justifying the reward of spending almost 10 times the amount per pupil for special ed versus regular education. It seems severely out of balance.

A Voice of Reason

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 9:33 a.m.

Special Education funding is paid through a millage from WISD, the federal and state government. I believe that services are a direct reimbursement. I am not sure why this is relevant to our discussion of our budget other than possibly head count discrepancies.

josber

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 9:13 a.m.

Belboz, you have an axe to grind about special ed. I don't think you're number of special ed students receiving services is accurate, while costs are high, the school is reimbursed by both the federal government and a county millage, it ain't as bad as you think. The school is mandated to take care of special ed appropriately, it's called FAPE, free and appropriate Public Education, and while things are getting better, AAPS got sued and lost many times in the not so distant past and that cost millions of dollars, in a state where most special ed cases don't lose, to tell you how bad things were. And there's a little thing called the autism epidemic, in case you hadn't noticed... So quit picking on special ed...

YpsiLivin

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 8:52 a.m.

Belboz, Yes, special education is expensive. That's why it's "special." Special education is very staff-intensive work. In addition to extra staffing, special education programs require special equipment, special spaces, and the teachers require extensive training. These children have limitations that other children don't have, but the State still requires these children to attend school or receive education to whatever extent that is possible. With the exception of foster and adoptive homes, parents don't choose to have children with special needs. Children come as they are, and many treatments for disabilities like autism aren't covered by medical insurance. Do you have specific information about waste, fraud and abuse in the Special Ed budget, or are you simply surprised by the cost of educating a child with special needs?

belboz

Wed, Apr 21, 2010 : 7:58 a.m.

@Lynn / eye... http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/admin.bussvcs/files/0910approvedbudget.pdf Page 10 of the budget shows 399 Special Ed Students in AAPS. That is an FTE count, meaning many kids use it part time - 10 students using it 10% of the time is 1 FTE. AAPS spends $34.4 million on Special Ed. So, now that I have the numbers in front of me - verified - that is $86k per Special Ed Student per year. That is over 8 times what we spend on every other child. Perhaps it should be renamed Expensive Ed. I'm all for trying to help maximize everyones ability, but $86k per student is outrageous. Even $50k cannot be justified. If I were to tell you we spend $86k per student, and only 9k per special ed student, people would be up in arms. It is not a one way street. AAPS will spend almost $1 million educating a special ed student at this rate if they stay from K to 12 over the years. Special Ed cannot be left out of the cost saving excercise. And Lynn, you're right. Anyone can post anything. Just like someone can post a criticism about a post, without having any information or do any of their own legwork, and cast serious doubts on it with no data - just opinions. At least you practice what you preach.

janofmi

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 9:37 p.m.

The age of a teacher is not a measure of whether or not a teacher is doing a good job. Few teachers walk out of a university prepared to teach. Just because a teacher can connect to the students is not a measure of that teachers effectiveness in the delivery of instruction. There are great and dynamic teachers of all ages. Do not assume that asking for older teachers to retire will be good for the system. Many of those that would be enticed by a retirement incentive are the teacher leaders that are important to the education of the children. Teacher tenure is not the reason there are bad teachers. If a teacher is no longer doing a good job, the tenure law gives the administration the map to follow to remove that teacher. Bad teachers still teaching is not the fault of the tenure law, it is the fault of administrators that are unwilling to follow the rules outlined by the law. Again asking veteran teachers to retire does not fix the underlying problem. There are plenty of teachers in their 30's who make as much as a teacher with 30+ years of experience. If you want to save money by letting go of the top paid teachers looking at years of experience is erroneous. Looking at years of experience in the district and educational level tell you which teachers are at the top to the schedule. So, if you think getting rid of older teachers saves the most, that logic is inaccurate. The flaws in school funding that have led to this crisis lies with the legislature of the State of Michigan. Until they are convinced that the people of Michigan are willing to do what is necessary to fix the system they will continue with the status quo in funding. Under that scenario, even the richest districts are beginning to suffer. Think about what you want for Michigans education systemWe have educated some the greatest and brightest. Do we want to lose this?

YpsiLivin

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 8:15 p.m.

Steve Norton, Be realistic about the school-age population. According to SEMCOG, the school-age population will decline in this area over the next 20 years. The decline in population is real; that's why AAPS is now offering 170 school-of-choice seats to students from other districts. AAPS will expand this program in years to come in order to hide the over-capacity issue. Sorry, but this is one issue you just can't paper over...

J. A. Pieper

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 8:13 p.m.

I voted no on the county wide millage because I can't afford to have the continued increase in my property taxes. School districts have a past history of going to the tax payer, and asking us for more funding, if we don't support the request, the implication is that we don't support giving our students the best education possible. Everyone values education, but the fact is that with the economic struggles facing our state, many of us are cutting back on expenses in every area possible. School districts have to make cuts, just like every taxpayer is doing in their own home/life. We spend less, period. We don't expand our home, we just try to take care of what we have, we learn to live with less. AAPS has used the tax loophole of the Sinking Fund Millage to get more money from its taxpayers, this is one way they have increased revenue in the past. They haven't realized that their constituents just can't afford continued increases in costs added to a mortgage payment. In times when many homeowners are struggling to keep their homes, districts need to adapt their spending, or risk having many more people leave Michigan because we can't afford to keep our homes! Many of the comments related to this article have pointed out questionable spending practices, with a hint that maybe some of it was unnecessary, another reason why I voted no on the county wide millage. Yes, we do have to find a different way to fund education, and this is what we have to ask our state legislature to work towards.

sh1

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 5:18 p.m.

@AA Taxpayer re "The AAEA is that largest and highest paid union within the AAPS...," are you saying teachers are paid more than principals? Do tell!

Lynn Lumbard

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 5:12 p.m.

eyeloveypsi, "belboz - That $70,000 per special eduction student - is that per year, per K-12, other? And, can you verify that?" I seriously doubt belboz can verify that, but that's the great thing about AnnArbor.com anyone can say anything that pops into their head and state it as fact.

Susan Montgomery

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 4:48 p.m.

The person who posted the email from AAPS about the layoffs did not forward the whole email. Here it is in its entirety, note the part " I am hopeful that layoff notices will be rescinded..." Dear AAPS Parents and Guardians, I regret having to inform you that 190 of our teachers will receive a layoff notice from the Ann Arbor Public Schools. Teachers who will receive a layoff notice have been informed by their principal and by a letter from me. The official notice will be sent after the Board of Education meets on Wednesday of this week. Why is AAPS Sending Layoff Notices? Due to the continuing financial impact of state funding cuts for public education, the district is planning for a worst-case scenario of an additional $300 reduction per student in funding for the 2010/2011 budget. Based on this information, I have submitted a draft budget plan to the Board of Education that includes a reduction of up to 89 teaching positions as part of this worst-case scenario. Although we have to plan for additional cuts from the state, we are also negotiating with the Ann Arbor Education Association in a productive and collaborative manner to reach a resolution. I am hopeful that layoff notices will be rescinded as we receive further information from the state and negotiations continue. Decisions regarding the recall of teachers will involve seniority, certification and highly qualified status. These layoffs in no way reflect the service that these teachers provide to our students. This was an extremely difficult decision to make. Given the funding projections from the state, as well as the many unknowns about the state budget, we unfortunately need to notify teachers in compliance with state and contractual obligations regarding possible teacher layoffs. I invite you to visit the districts website to review the budget plan www.a2schools.org. And as always, if you have questions please feel free to contact me at robertst@aaps.k12.mi.us. Sincerely, Todd Roberts, Superintendent

Steve Norton, MIPFS

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 3:17 p.m.

Let's all try to remember some reality: AAPS has not been dramatically losing students. We're down from a peak of a few years ago, and we took about a 200 pupil hit when Pfizer closed. But that's about it. The reason for these cuts does NOT have to do with lower student counts in AAPS; it has mostly to do with cuts in the funding from the state, combined with rising costs mostly from state-mandated retirement contributions and health care costs. Even with teachers sharing the cost of health care, costs are going up so fast that no one can keep up. Second, building capacity isn't a very good argument. The capacity figures are based on the number of rooms a building has, and if each were filled with a class of 25 students. Filling buildings to capacity would mean either hiring more teachers to teach those classrooms (no money) or stuffing more kids into existing classrooms. Closing buildings would have the same effect. The actual cost of running a building is tiny compared to the cost of staffing it. Closing a school would save very little unless you also eliminated all the teachers who worked there (and thus pumped up class size across the district). However, the disruption of closing schools and redistricting probably would encourage people to leave the district. Lose about 60 kids, and you have wiped out the savings from closing an elementary building. Thirdly, let's be clear: the district administration's budget plan included both a 4% across the board cut for most employee groups, all the reductions and restructurings they have described, plus cost cuts of 20% in custodial and transportation (by privatization or other means). There is no indication that the choice to look at privatization depended on what the teachers' union did. The argument was that other districts had achieved significant savings through privatization, and that available funds had to be spent on the district's core mission: teaching. I don't totally agree with this stance, but I can understand their argument. Lastly, all of us as voters do bear responsibility, since we elected the legislature which has failed to act. Yes, tax revenues for schools are down, but the funds available for education have not kept up with Michigan personal income for many years, even when income was growing. As a result, schools have very little reserve to fall back on. Voters have not been approving millages over and over again. The ONLY operating millages districts can ask voters to pass and renew are the required 18 mills on commercial property and, for hold harmless districts, a small amount on residential that has not changed since 1994. All other funding comes from the state, and mostly comes from the sales and income taxes. It's important not to get carried away with our arguments, and remember how things are truly set up in Michigan's education system.

eyeloveypsi

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 2:42 p.m.

belboz - That $70,000 per special eduction student - is that per year, per K-12, other? And, can you verify that?

Dalex64

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 2 p.m.

@Lisa, I am not counting a loss of future bonuses as a loss of income. I never said I got a bonus. As a matter of fact, I have not. My pay cut was in fact, a pay cut. I made X the year before the pay cut, the year before, and the year before that. The year of the pay cut, I made 10% less. Also, my health care premiums (ever hear of those?) doubled. I didn't count that in my pay cut either. But, perhaps you are correct in stating that my position, and I'm sure the position of many other people who have suffered loss of pay or job loss, are not the same as yours and do not indicate that you should have your pay cut. The simple fact was, in my company, revenues were down, and to stay open, cuts had to be made. In the State of Michigan, revenue is down. Cuts were made, including in education. Now, in a school district, cuts have to be made. So, yes, I find your expectation of a 1-2% wage increase unreasonable in a situation of declining revenues and rising (outside of labor) expenses, and in the face of your colleagues losing their jobs. Where does that leave education? Well, fewer teachers means larger classroom size. Everyone pretty much agrees that larger classroom sizes result in poorer education. How many jobs could be saved by a wage freeze? I don't know, but I suspect it is at least one. In conclusion, and in my opinion, expecting and insisting on a 1-2% raise in today's economy in Michigan is both selfish and bad for education.

bornblu

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 1:10 p.m.

Lisa: Your comment to Jenny indicated the current problem was made by "district leadership, taxpayers, and the state legislature". Just a couple points, the taxpayers didn't "make this problem", they are the citizens who for years and years have approved educations request for more and more money. This has allowed you, and others emplyed in education, to enjoy the salary, benifits, retirement, and working conditions that are quite substantial in todays economic enviornment. These same people (taxpayers) have now said enough is enough regarding the extravagant reimbursment packages for all involved. You may disagree with this, but it also was and is the obvious feeling of those who actively took the time to involve themselves in the voting process. I would agree completely that a new method to fund education must be established, this though is not to continue to award/pay educators and those involved as we do now, but to place some form of equity and fairness to the burden that all who do pay experience. I also am not one who feels like chiken little and yells "the sky is falling" regarding our current situation. I look at the state of education in Michigan and am not pleased with the current results statewide. I see numerous districts with significant failure rates and certianly don't have to name them. Throwing more money at these districts through state funding will simply not help. It maybe unfortunate that districts like Ann Arbor and Saline get caught up in the needed change of financing education, but again, it is what it is and the people have spoken. What I am excited about is the number of people that have taken an active interest in this as can be evidenced by response on this, and other threads. I also see a significant increase in families involved in their childrens education through private,charter, home school programs, etc. I also will not entertain arguements that the quality of education in these alternative programs is less due to the teachers and curriculum. I do not accept the fact that a teachers "luck" of landing a job in Ann Arbor or Saline indicates that they are more qualified, gifted, concerned, or whatever phrase would be used, as oppossed to those whose "luck" job search landed them in a failing school district. Again, as I have said before, I respect the job required of all teachers and wish we could pay them all more (as should many other vocations), but in todays economic times that is not a viable alternative.

jcj

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 12:48 p.m.

@Lisa Starrfield YOU are not paying the auto employee his wages! But then pretty much everyone else has shot down your logic. What percentage of MY wages did you pay? ZERO! I am really not anti teacher or anti teachers union. I am against any group that is paid with public dollars thinking they should be singled out as the untouchables.

stunhsif

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 12:31 p.m.

@Lisa, That person who has had a 20% paycut over the past 5 years was me. That 20% loss did include a small bonus ( that I've gotten for 12 straight years) because I have been the top producer in my company. The bonus was taken away in 2008. So you say you have never had a bonus Lisa and guess what, I have never had a pension, I am one of those regular employees that only has a 401K!! So to follow your reasoning then, if I lose my bonus then you need to lose your pension!!! I pay your salary through my taxes and you are my employee. I will work darn hard to see that your pension is turned into a 401K like the rest of us who pay your salary.

Jimmy Olsen

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 12:22 p.m.

@Lisa You should probably take the MEA course on bargaining. The AAEA is sitting back waiting for every other unit to take their cuts and hits, and then, and only then, will the AAEA offer up nothing more than a sacrificial concession to make it look like they are giving. The cuts - should be across the board for all employee units - top to bottom. The AAEA is out for themselves and only themseleves, and this same scenario plays out in every district in the state, after all, according to the MEA "enough is enough". Well said - I wonder how much of your dues money they are spending on those commercials?

PhillyCheeseSteak

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 11:32 a.m.

The Michigan legislature needs to do its job: 1. determine per pupil funding amount for next state budget, a.s.a.p. so that school districts can plan NOW; 2. agree upon a state initiative to encourage teachers at the top of the pay scale to retire, so that school districts can plan NOW; The Ann Arbor Board of Education needs to do its job: 1. Close 2 - 3 elementary and 2 middle schools, immediately after the end of this school year. Ann Arbor has 19 elementary; 5 middle; 6 high schools; and 1 K - 8 school. 2. Only 3 elementary schools are at/above capacity (25 students per class). 16 elementary schools are below capacity by an eye-opening 993 students! 3. ALL middle schools are below capacity by a whopping 1,161 students! 4. Run the open schools as efficiently as possible. If Thurston elementary can run for $6,763 per student, why does it take $9,414 at Pittsfield elem? 5. Does each middle school need 2 principals? Do Pioneer and Huron high schools each need 5 principals? *All numbers are from the Sept. 2009 Headcount and AAPS's "A User Friendly Version of the FY 2009/10 Budget".

YpsiLivin

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 11:24 a.m.

jns131, A layoff notice issued at this date won't necessarily translate into a layoff, nor will the decision to eliminate 50 teaching positions mean that 50 teachers will lose their jobs. The school district is simply complying with state law which requires that the school district issue notifications on or before April 30. The AAPS has no idea how many teachers are leaving at the end of the school year through natural attrition processes like retirements and relocations. Until those numbers are known, (well after the state-mandated deadline for issuing layoff notices) the 190-teacher figure is almost meaningless. I know teachers who have taught for years and receive layoff notices every Spring, yet every Fall, they're back in the classroom. In the not-to-distant future, AAPS will have to deal with the fact that it has more building capacity than students (and prospective students) to fill its schools. The school-age population in the area is dropping, which means that the district will get fewer dollars from the state. Charter schools will continue to siphon off the prospective student pool, too. The only way the district can get more per-pupil dollars is by cannibalizing other school districts (schools of choice), going head-to-head with charters (been trying', not workin') or by redirecting non-instructional costs like administration, transportation, food service and custodial service back into the classroom. Very soon, the district will need to make some additional decisions about how best to maximize the capacity of its buildings. Bottom line: save the "shock and awe" for the school closures. The AAPS is hardly the Titanic, but you can't make wholesale changes and at the same time leave everything the way it is.

blahblahblah

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 11:11 a.m.

In terms of the larger picture, at the state level and national level, public employee retirement programs are grossly underfunded. Private industry has already moved away from these expensive defined benefit pension plans because of the basic economic conclusion that they were unsustainable. Sooner or later the public sector is going to have to face this reality as well. A 2009 study by economists Robert Novy-Marx and Joshua Rauh, published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, estimated that state and local government pensions are underfunded by $3.2 trillion, or $27,000 for every American household.

A Voice of Reason

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 10:36 a.m.

Lisa Starfield, I would love to give you a bonus as a teacher--it is called pay for performance which the teacher's union is very against. Your union is dictating how you are paid and treated, so you obviously buy into this structure. If you educated my children and prove that you are good, I will give you my right arm.

A Voice of Reason

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 10:21 a.m.

Lisa Starfield, First, the auto companies are private companies and we do not have any right to ask them for concessions because we are not shareholders. The teaachers work for the tax payers so we have a right to ask them for concessions. If you are a teacher, why are you commenting during the day during class time?

Lisa Starrfield

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 9:49 a.m.

JCJ I have NEVER seen article after article about auto layoffs filled with people DEMANDING that they cut their salary by 10% or more.

Lisa Starrfield

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 9:46 a.m.

Dalex, That one person who claimed they had a 20% pay cut later admitted it was an effective pay cut which included no raises, a loss of bonuses, a loss of money put into his 401K. I never got a bonus as a teacher. Don't complain that it isn't fair you lost your bonus and therefore I should get a huge paycut because of it.

Lisa Starrfield

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 9:42 a.m.

Jennifer, We did have a buy-out in 2006 during the middle school restructuring process. The middle school programs were gutted. Teachers eligible for retirement were given incentives to retire. That middle school restructuring was supposed to be followed the next year by an elementary restructuring and then a high school restructuring for when Skyline opened. But neither of those promised restructurings occurred. The writing was on the wall then. The district failed to act and now our custodial staff, our transportation staff, our technology staff, our secretarial staff, our administrative staff and us teachers are paying the consequences of a failure of leadership. SO many on this board are calling for enormous sacrifices on the part of teachers to fix a problem made by the district leadership, the taxpayers and the state legislature.

Lisa Starrfield

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 9:38 a.m.

Please note that no matter what the teacher union does or does not agree to, Mr. Roberts plans on cutting at least 50 teaching positions. The same goes for the custodial staff; the decision to privatize was recommended by Roberts independent of negotiations with AAEA.

jns131

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 9:18 a.m.

David Jesse? I am a parent inside this system and the letter I got from a mass email to parents from Liz Margolis states these lay offs will happen. I am looking at the letter (cut and paste) states: I regret having to inform you that 190 of our teachers will receive a layoff notice from the Ann Arbor Public Schools. Teachers who will receive a layoff notice have been informed by their principal and by a letter from me. The official notice will be sent after the Board of Education meets on Wednesday of this week. This many layoffs do not include how many are retiring as well. I am in shock and awe. Now how do we save the Titanic?

Hot Sam

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 8:15 a.m.

When you have gone through the local bureaucracy...went down on State street and found out what is really needed and what is not... When you have pared down the ridiculous number of school districts (almost 600) to a reasonable number... When you have demanded that Lansing clean house of any people or programs that are ineffective in actually teaching our children... And most importantly, when you have dramatically reduced the insane amount of money sent to Washington in the name of education... Then and only then should you be criticizing any one who voted against last falls millage request. It should not be about teachers...it should be about the system...

Alan Benard

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 8:11 a.m.

The question of whether a Michigan constitutional convention should be convened will be on November's general election ballot. Please vote YES. We would have the opportunity to change public employee benefit packages, perhaps tenure, and other archaic laws causing us so many problems.Oh, please do. First thing we do is adopt a progressive income tax. 4.35 percent for dishwashers and venture capitalists alike is grossly unfair, and a large part of the reason this state cannot fund its basic activities, such as education.

JackieL

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 8:10 a.m.

Someone is in the UAW and is questioning the teachers' union? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I have worked in the car plants and I've seen what goes on there. It's not a perfect world either.

averagetaxpayer

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 7:48 a.m.

@donbee - RE: Concon The legislature is so inneffective perhaps its time things be shaken up. Obviously a concon is complicated but the people do get the final say. Tired of waiting on politicians who generally lack courage to address important or controversial issues. Also, many of those items you list should be addressed (reduction in local gov't, reduction in school districts, taxes, part-time state gov't, etc.) btw, what happened to Milton's original post? Concon is now somewhat off-topic but was not so in context of original post, which was related to this teacher layoff issue.

tink

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 7:42 a.m.

I wish someone at annarbor.com could provide information regarding the difference in what the AA district receives per pupil as compared to other districts. Also the difference in teachers' pay as compared to other districts. A few months ago, someone posted that there are around 500 teachers in AA who receive over $100,000 per year in salary, pay less into their retirement than those in most other sectors, and also have very good health care plans (that they carry into retirement) for which they pay little. You also get your summers and holidays off, planning days/hours. I know you work hard and need to continue your education at your own expense, but so do the rest of us. For comparison, I'm a nurse and I don't know of any staff nurses at the top of their pay schedules who make nearly what these teachers earn. We work all year, most holidays, every other weekend... I don't begrudge teachers and don't mind paying taxes to educate children (mine are grown), but it seems that you should be able to make the same concessions that every other group of professionals (outside the banking industry!) has had to make in these tough economic times to bring your pay and benefits more in line with the rest of us. Especially if you care about these children and your colleagues.

belboz

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 7:40 a.m.

Ann Arbor spends over $70,000 per student on special education. I hope we see some consolidation and efficiency in this category. Talk about needing some rewrite of the rules in lansing regarding education and funding.... I'm dissappointed that more wasn't done to close some schools - stone school, one high school, one middle and several elementary - to increase efficiency. There is a large disparity on administration cost per student in schools because of enrollment innefficiency. Passing the millage would have lead to no changes. AAPS staff need to realize they are part of a larger economy and society. When I see parking lots half filled with foreign cars - BMW, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc... - it is clear to me they are not aware they rely on the workers in Michigan for their pay.

A Voice of Reason

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 7:22 a.m.

For those of you who supported the millage--you support the status quo and this is how you operate--laying off the youngest, energetic, teachers or "eating your young" to survive and delivering pink slips during class! I am not sure why a intelligent community allows for your tactics. Ann Arbor spends $1000 more per pupil on teacher's salaries than like districts who have the same outcomes. Our achievement gap is one of the worst in the nation. I say--let's get rid of the teacher's union who protects ineffective teachers. When parents have input into teacher evaluation and teachers are evaluated on their effectiveness vs. tensure and degrees (which has no correlction to effectiveness), then we can talk. Change is coming and you either dig in your heels and resist it or lead it. Why is ann arbor not leading this change? Great districts have parents evaluate the teachers and teachers are actually paid for performance vs. tenure and degrees. http://www.gatesfoundation.org/united-states/Pages/empowering-effective-teachers-readiness.aspx Also, diverting transportation costs to the WISD (busing is being centralized and there will probably be a WISD millage for busing to free up more operating expenses for teacher's pay). Wake up people! This is what they did with Special Education money. Where did all the money go that use to be spent on Special Education in AAPS?

DonBee

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 7:11 a.m.

Milton Waddams - Be careful what you wish for. A constitutional convention (ConCon) will have many different groups wanting their rights in the constitution: -Education funding K-12, Higher Education -English as the official state language -Changing closed (Union only) shops for workers -Medical rights of women and children -One house of government -Part time government and strong governor -Rights of various minorities and gender groups -Legalization of various substances -Length of service in various state offices -Spending for Human Services -State cabinet departments (how many and what they cover) -State tax system and rates (VAT, Sales, Income, Property, etc) -State property tax structure (Home stead, Industrial, University exemptions, over 70 tax stablization, etc) -Reduction in school districts (minimum size limit in square miles or students) -Reduction in local units of government (possible elimination of townships) and the list goes on... The ConCon will not just be about one issue every single interest group will influence it. In talking with my uncle who served on the last one, it was a zoo, and the state was in better shape and the people had fewer axes to grind. This is one I will vote no on. I would rather one amendment at a time fix the things that are wrong than open the whole thing up for wholesale re-write. My list comes from web surfing, looking at reasons people in different groups want the ConCon. Some of them are on the opposite sides of some of these issues. If you think Michigan is a mess now, wait until with have a ConCon running and it gets extended a couple of times. No new business will locate significant new facilities in the state when these sorts of issues are being debated. Most young people will look at the way this will be handled and decide to move to another state. On this issue I will vote NO, and I would recommend you think about all the issues that could be put in the constitution and the fact that it will be an up or down vote on the whole thing before you vote yes. You may like the position on some issues and hate it on others.

Dalex64

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 7:08 a.m.

@sh1 Ok, 1-2% raises is "tame" and doesn't keep up with the cost of living. I've seen one person in these comments state a 20% pay CUT. I didn't get a raise for years, and then my co-workers and I all took 10% pay cuts to keep most of us employed. That doesn't exactly keep up with the cost of living either!

Jennifer Shikes Haines

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 6:29 a.m.

I'm just not sure why a buy-out wasn't proposed as it was a few years ago - that would have been more of a win-win - the teachers who are ready for retirement could retire early, and the young teachers who are SO passionate about being there might still have a place at the table.

sh1

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 6:24 a.m.

There are many people here saying teacher unions are greedy. Teacher raises have been pretty tame over the years, mostly in the 1-2% range. Is that really greedy? It doesn't even keep up with the cost of living.

greymom

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 6:01 a.m.

This whole situation is sad for all of Ann Arbor- A2 is one of the riches towns, and one of the best School Districts in Michigan. I will say one thing I don't want to see ANYONE loss their jobs as we are on the chopping block also as I am a worker in the District. But, I will say Teachers are paid well if they have time in and it will be much easier coming up with 4 million dollar saving with 1400 people, then the 2 million they asked from 173 custodial, maintenance and grounds jobs. No body wants cuts, or the loss of our job- so what is the City of Ann Arbor doing to save jobs- go tell the Board how you feel, bring your kids, families and anyone and fill the Board Meetings. Speak up, call the Admin. Building and get put on the list to speak. Make a difference and speak up. Close schools, less Principles in Buildings, stop all the wasting going on in the District, start with cuts at the top, not the bottom!!! Come together and fight to keep Ann Arbor Schools on top!!!

Jimmy Olsen

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : 5:51 a.m.

@ArborGuide - the fact that all class sizes will increase and we will have fewer teachers is a great start, isn't it? I'll say it again - it is simple economics - you can't spend more than you have, and the MEA doesn't understand that. Funding changes will not come in an election year - we all know that. The current model doesn't work anymore.

Milton Waddams

Tue, Apr 20, 2010 : midnight

The whining about the millage not passing is getting real old. If passed the millage would have served only the teachers (and administrators) with higher salaries. Teachers would again hold us hostage around start of the school year by striking to assure they got that raise. They've done it many times before and would do it again. Of course while this is happening the schools would still be pushing for privatization of services and pay to play. I find it humorous to read how Satchwell says there wasn't enough time for the union and administration to reach an agreement so as to avoid these state-mandated layoff notices. Would there ever be enough time? The two sides rarely reach an agreement of consequence until the pressure of the school year arrives. Perhaps some informed individual (maybe annarbor.com?) could enlighten us as to how negotiations are really proceeding? The question of whether a Michigan constitutional convention should be convened will be on November's general election ballot. Please vote YES. We would have the opportunity to change public employee benefit packages, perhaps tenure, and other archaic laws causing us so many problems.

LGChelsea

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 11:15 p.m.

What I always wonder, when reading about all of you who hate teachers because they have such easy jobs and earn so much, is why, when planning your career, didn't you go into teaching? For many older folks, you know why. Because teachers earned so little in comparison to those with comparable education. We accepted lower salaries knowing that we would have decent pensions, which lower pay in the beginning would be compensated in the end. When I started teaching 33 years ago, I had many colleagues who qualified for and received ADC. Remember that? Aid to Dependent Children. I also know that many new teachers weren't able to afford their own home until they had quite a few years in a district. In addition, I didn't know of any teacher who did not work at least one job during the summer and often worked evening jobs during the school year. As for older teachers with a lot of experience, I became a better teacher each year I progressed in my career. I became better at time management, planning ahead, organization, managing student behavior and streamlining paperwork. Each year I taught, however, was more difficult than the previous due to constantly changing standards, testing, increased demands in all areas and unbelievable amounts of paperwork. New teachers today learn quickly how difficult teaching is. And many, unfortunately, leave within a few years due to the stress, exhaustion, deadlines and time constraints and frequent after school meetings. All this while trying to meet all goals for all students, all the time, and being a social worker, nurse, behavior specialist and parent to those who need you. The last few years I taught, I wondered how young teachers with small children could manage both. (I know how difficult it was when I started teaching). Many times, unfortunately, they couldn't. Many beginning teachers leave before they get too much seniority that it would be foolish for them to start over. I know that I earned every penny I made while teaching and I will never apologize for my salary or pension. I do feel terrible for the sad state of education today and I feel for those who feel so unappreciated after reading comments here. I received some surprising news recently. My grandson, a recent college graduate, accepted a job that pays $2,000 LESS than what I was making when I retired. And I am so happy for him! Now, for all of you who complain about how good teachers have it, go out and get a teaching degree so you can be rich and happy, too!

Dan Rubenstein

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 10:47 p.m.

Many comments here are amusing. Life's shown me that everyone tends to think they work harder than everyone else. And they possess the sin of envy. Many comments here bear this out once again. The honest and mature know this (jcj). The bottom line is the kids are going to suffer, in ways big and small. I hope no one is happy about that.

jcj

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 10:17 p.m.

And BTW! I don't know of a single teacher that has contributed to MY retirement! While I certainly have contributed to theirs! THAT gives me some say in the matter!

jcj

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 10:15 p.m.

@proudtobeme It just so happens that I have contact with a number of teachers and I have seen first hand the attitude of most of them. They think they work harder than any other member of society. And the holier than thou attitude is more prevalent than any other part of society I have come in contact with. And why weren't the teachers posting when others were losing their jobs? If they are such noble civic minded individuals unlike the rest of us. Why to look at some of the post their must be sainthood around the corner for most teachers! @SpamBot1 Typical everyone else can suffer but not me! Shows your true colors! @Anonymous Due to Bigotry I don't disagree too much with you. It is true that it would be hard to get away with the things that were done in the early days. I just wanted to mention that unions were very important to this country at one time and the way of life we have enjoyed for the last 60 years. There are many out there that have only seen the negative impact unions have had.

Anonymous Due to Bigotry

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 9:46 p.m.

I agree that unions originally were critical for ensuring fair treatment of workers, but times have changed and laws have changed too. We're not exactly in danger of seeing adults and kids being subjected to wage slavery, and the unions seem to do more to put companies (and apparently school districts) out of business than anything else.

SpamBot1

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 9:42 p.m.

it's amazing to me that we are watching the dismantling of public education, the very cornerstone of our democracy, and all some can talk about is how every one should suffer --- if we impose the wishes of the vocal few, those that want nothing but for-profit services, schools as businesses, minimum-wage and benefit-free teachers, we will all suffer before long --- Enough is enough...

proudtobeme

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 9:07 p.m.

at least the AA teachers got called into the principals office and told in person. In Saline,there was not warning,no face to face,no phone call. Just a pink slip in mailboxes to start the day. Human compassion goes a long way......

bruno_uno

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 9:06 p.m.

this amount of layoffs will never happen to the nations strongest union. never.

Jon Saalberg

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 9:02 p.m.

To those who make suggestions about farming out or closing Skyline - you seem to forget that Huron and Pioneer have students in portables and that is the reason Skyline was built - the other two large high schools have been overcrowded for decades, and would have continued to be overcrowded without a new high school. Also, one comment mentioned Skyline is only half full, and that is because the school is adding one grade at at time until it has a full student population.

jcj

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:56 p.m.

Its the old "if your neighbor is laid off its a recession, if you are laid off its a depression" Syndrome. As for the union bashing. A lot of it is deserved and I have been a union member for about 40 years. However lets not forget what unions gave this country back in the 30's & 40's when there was no job security, If an employer did not like the look on your face on a given day you could be in the soup line again. And there would never have been the prosperity most of us enjoyed in the 60's - 90's without the unions. But then they got greedy just like wall street,just like the politicians, just like everyone else in this country. There are not many bashing the unions here that would not have joined if given the chance back then!

Jimmy Olsen

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:56 p.m.

@ArborGuide I'm not saying that everyone has to loose - but the simple fact is - there is no revenue - cuts have to be made. When 85% plus is salaries and benefits - where do you go? You can trim a little here, a little there, but the basic fact remains. The MEA refuses to be realistic about their current situation. Read their new slogan "enough is enough". That was also the citizen cry that defeated the county millage. Come up with a pay formula that sets minimums and rewards when the revenue cycle is better. All the contracted "steps", etc are ridiculous in the year 2010. Whether you want to believe it or not, schools are a business and their product is educating children. Market driven or not, I can find teachers who would be willing to take less and are just as effective as the fat cats on the top of the scale - even more so. Times are changing and the old model is being driven over the cliff.

proudtobeme

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:53 p.m.

@jcj just because teachers were not posting on these boards when the auto,borders,Pfizer,etc. layoffs and closings were happening doesn't mean they don't care or that they know nothing about economics. I think it's pretty ignorant to assume teachers are full of themselves or that they don't care about the economy,community,students. How would you know?

A2zoo

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:47 p.m.

There is an outcry about this because teachers are not like any other industry. Teachers prepare our youth for their future...the future of OUR country.

Anonymous Due to Bigotry

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:46 p.m.

I agree that the unions these days mostly serve to protect the lazy/incompetent/ineffective. But I doubt that unions are the only problem. Sounds like various laws also protect the incompetent who just happen to have been employed longer. The whole concept of tenure for k-12 teachers is ridiculous. They're teaching kids, not doing potentially unpopular academic research. They need to round up all the incompetent ones and fire them regardless of age.

BenWoodruff

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:29 p.m.

I'll try to be more delicate, since my last post was deleted...a2huron posted this when Saline announced it's teacher layoffs last week. "Wow. What a messed up district. Glad I don't have kids in this district, since it appears the kids come last (though not far behind low-tenured teachers thrown under the "bus" to save a 2.5% raise for the rest). If you can't forgo a 2.5% raise to save a colleague's job (63 colleagues, at that), then you don't deserve any respect. Very unfortunate. I guess folk's true colors come out when push comes to shove (in other words, "pushing" is okay as long as it is someone else getting pushed)." hey a2huron, could you comment now that it's your district looking at layoffs, especially when your district gets $2,000.00 more in state aid per student? i hope you have some humility in your future comments about other districts and their financial plight.

stunhsif

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 8:09 p.m.

@sh1, I voted no on the millage because of the waste, the overspending, the entitlement attitude and the fact that my take home pay is down 20% over the past 5 years. I have a nice house, and high taxes too boot. I drive older cars because I cannot afford new ones. I don't have a pension, I won't have healthcare when I retire which I doubt I'll ever do because I won't be able to afford it. And I DO CARE abou the KIDS. You folks don't, plain and simple. Just give up a bit of your fat cat benefits so NO teachers have to lose their jobs or at least very few do. Help us out please?

PatriciaAve

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 7:52 p.m.

lumberg48108, there are roughly 250,000 people who die each day too, but I would never think of telling a grieving family member, "Everyone is hurting. You can join the rest of us!" I find your comment extremely insensitive. We should be supporting the workers of our community during this time, not welcoming them to the unemployment club. Just because you've been through it, or even if 14.6% of the state's population has been through it, doesn't make it any less of a devastation to the families in our community.

jcj

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 7:38 p.m.

@skfina2 "Whether they get called back or not, it is still emotionally wrenching to have to go through this" While I agree that this is a hard thing to go through for the teachers and their families. And I wish there was another way. BUT I have not seen the outcry from teachers when so many auto workers got laid of. I did not hear from the teachers when the building trades when down the tubes. Any tears shed for the laid of workers at Borders? Probably not many teachers thought much about the workers let go when the Ann Arbor News closed down. How about the Pfizer workers? Are some of you so arrogant that you think you are the only ones suffering? It would seem that getting teachers to understand economics is like trying to teach an old dog new tricks.

eagleman

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 7:37 p.m.

The problem with unions is that they don't police themselves. They protect lazy, unproductive workers when they should be working for the benefit of the industry or sector they are involved with. Yes, their main job is to protect their members, but workers only have jobs so long as the industry they are in is making enough money to support them. Unions only exist because jobs exist. People have forgotton that. It is time for Unions to change, not fold. Unions are still necessary becaus companies and other entities have a tendency to take liberties with their workers. But it is undeniable that Unions need o be reformed. As an union worker myself, I can attest to the inept, corrupt, and myopic leadership of Unions.

sh1

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 7:34 p.m.

@stunhsif: I don't believe there's any evidence here to back up your assertion that the unions don't care about the new teachers. Perhaps the people who voted no on the millage are the ones who didn't care about them.

stunhsif

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 7:12 p.m.

One simple question for the AAEA and SEA. If your unions don't even care about your newest and most vulnerable coworkers, how on earth are we supposed to believe you care about the students. Especially when your decisions to not take reasonable cuts will increase classroom size which hurts the kids?

proudtobeme

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 6:38 p.m.

what about the inbetween teachers? not new but not old either. Like say 10 years experience?

Lokalisierung

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 6:21 p.m.

"including eliminating at least 50 teaching jobs. The second part of the announced plan calls for another 40-plus teaching positions to be eliminated if the districts unions, including the teachers union, dont come up with more than $4 million in cuts." I don't know if they could make enough concessions to keep everyone employed. I still think it's laughable everyone assumes the newer teaachers are better. I wonder if htere's any othr job where peope assume such things?

dlarrouy

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 6:05 p.m.

I am sorry for the teachers; probably the better ones newly hired. But the conduct of this lunion is appalling and old news. We all know that the teachers, and all public employees have health care plans that are well above any other public employees in the nation. I worked for Ford and had the benefit of the UAW benefits and even they were not as good as the teachers. In fact Ford cancelled my health insurance after I retired. The cost of these benefits kill the district. In the old days a union would make a sacrifice for the good of the members. But not here. The union will fight until is kills all its members. dave

YpsiLivin

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 5:13 p.m.

While it's easy to assume that the problem here is funding, it's not. In a per-pupil funding model, such as the one we now have, a district receives less money when it loses pupils. This area has lost a significant percentage of its population, and all school districts are, to one degree or another, overbuilt. Unless the school-aged population increases, (it's predicted to drop at least through 2030) more schools will need to be closed simply because there are no students to fill them.

eyeloveypsi

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 5:05 p.m.

Top Cat - I agree with your point that the weakest teachers should be let go, but that is much easier said than done. It's a very subjective process and is easily abused by weak administrators or those who play favorites. Tenure is there for a reason and the law was changed years ago so that it takes four years to earn tenure. Administrators that allow poor teachers to get tenure should be the ones to go (with the poor teachers!).

eyeloveypsi

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 4:58 p.m.

Flash, that is really terrible, but didn't your husband know this was a possibility? The main reason most teachers don't change districts is because their seniority goes back to zero.

YpsiReader

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 4:56 p.m.

Teacher (worker) lay-offs are a sad, yet increasingly common occurrence in the State of MI. I am appalled at the vitriolic comments against seasoned teachers in many Ann Arbor News blogs. No one should have to lose their job, but someone will. Yes, a young teacher may earn significantly less than an older teacher, but age and tenure do not make a teacher less committed to children, less caring, less skillful or creative, or less able to do the job they have held for many years. Contracts are put in place so that decisions such as this have a framework and are not made based on personality, expense, or other haphazard factors. Contracts insure that all employees are treated fairly. For the record, established teachers also own homes and would like to stay in the community just like their younger colleagues. This is very difficult time for everyone.

JackieL

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 4:36 p.m.

This does not mean there will actually be any lay offs. They are eliminating 50 positions and it all depends on how many teachers retire or leave the district. There will be more disruption, though as people and programs are shuffled around to fill in the gaps left by the positions that are eliminated.

Blerg

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 4:24 p.m.

@blahblahblah It is unfair and incorrect to compare AAPS to the auto industry. AAPS provides a top-rated education to an increasing number of students every year. Saying that layoffs at AAPS are fair because of what happened in the auto industry is like comparing apples and Toyotas.

say it plain

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 4:07 p.m.

@Arborguide makes some very important points. Skyline was built to address the long-term needs of the AAPS, and it surely will serve those, even though the outlook for population growth has changed for now, and even though many (me included) would have preferred a different approach to easing overcrowding at the existing high schools (like adding some more alternative education sites). The principal was working toward creating a *thoughtfully planned* school, looking at 'best practices' in education and carefully building a high school that would serve our students very well--in other words, maximizing the chances that we do the right things. Please do consider the possibility that one can be, as they say, penny-wise and pound-foolish? Why does Dexter have to lay off teachers as @Louise's daughter is unfortunately experiencing? Do they also have too many schools? Why are schools all over MI hurting and needing to cut staff and programs and elsewise? One can argue til one goes blue in the face about priorities in funding, and those are not invalid arguments, but many many districts suddenly are budget-challenged. Could this be a state-wise problem, then, and not just due to the choices AAPS has made? Whatever one thinks about the administrative structures in place at AAPS, how likely would it have been that a sudden dip in allocated funds would prompt wholesale structural change rather than lay-offs or privatization bids? I guess we'll see how this finally plays out in terms of administration versus teaching staff, privatization scenarios, and layoffs versus across-the-board reductions in pay and/or benefits, but the whole issue of doing with less will be with us for a while, and we will have to eventually address it on a larger scale.

sh1

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 4:03 p.m.

Just for clarification, neither the MEA nor Ann Arbor teachers' unions were given a say in the lay-off notices. Perhaps the district is playing hardball?

blahblahblah

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 3:56 p.m.

According to the article, " If the district actually lays off teachers next year, it would be the first time since 1971." Well it was a nice run while it lasted, just like the changes happening to the auto industry, it's time for the MEA to come down to the reality of our state's financial picture.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 3:56 p.m.

", and he gets consistently stellar reviews from students, parents, and administrators. But because he's only worked for AAPS for 2 years, he'll be out the door if the union won't accept cuts." He's my question; What makes your husband so special in this case? Are we to assume that the teachers with more seniority are not as hard working as the newer teachers? All I seem to be hearing is no one likes the new teachers getting their notices. as if there could be no possible way there aren't "as good" (whatever that means) as teachers who have been working there longer. Why is everyone hating on the older teachers?

flash

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 3:49 p.m.

Despite all the good unions did early in the history of this country, I'm not feeling so hot towards the MEA. My husband has 7 years of teaching experience, master's degrees in his subject areas, and he gets consistently stellar reviews from students, parents, and administrators. But because he's only worked for AAPS for 2 years, he'll be out the door if the union won't accept cuts. He got his notice on Saturday. There's no recognition of the fact that he's an extremely hard worker and does a great job. None! His "boss", the school principal, doesn't have any say in whether he stays or goes. Thank god I'm not a school principal - the impotence would drive me crazy. MEA, here is a tip - throwing them under the bus when there's trouble is not a great way to motivate young, committed, energetic teachers. Way to play, guys. We bought a house here, and we'd like to stay in Ann Arbor and raise a family, but my husband would also like to keep teaching, so we have to plan for a move now. If the district is 20 million dollars short this year, where will they be next year? It's not like the economy is getting any better in Michigan. Or like the huge swimming pools at the big high schools will start heating themselves. I mean, really, they couldn't see a 20 million dollar shortfall coming? 20 million! I hope they're not spending a lot of money on financial planning.

sh1

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 3:07 p.m.

Union bashers, I hope you have access to history books and can actually read how we evolved TO unions over the years to protect workers after centuries of abuse. To say we don't need unions in "this day and age" suggests a regression to times when people could be fired at will, made to work overtime without compensation, and made to work in dangerous and unsanitary conditions. I know people are angry, but I hope no one wants that.

ArborGuide

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 2:46 p.m.

@EyeHeartA2 I think it is good to question why our schools are not full. The only problem is that schools are brought online to address the predicted needs of the community for the NEXT 50 YEARS. Add to that that school buildings cannot be designed, allocated and constructed in a year. When Skyline was approved the short term predictions were much different that currently exist. The same question could be asked of any of us. When purchasing your first home, do you anticipate possibly having kids or do you just buy the one bedroom house? It's a tough call.

ArborGuide

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 2:44 p.m.

@Jimmy Olsen I have heard this argument before and it always strikes me as narrowly focussed. Education is not (nor do you want it to be) a purely market driven endeavor. Yes, other industries have made sacrifices. Some, in fact, have gone out of business altogether. Education is a singular investment in the future of individuals and a society collectively. Yes, people who have lost work are frustrated, but the argument doesn't hold that because one industry loses, everyone should. (Unless of course you support the bank bailouts, which adopted that model. We all get to suffer because the banks lost money, and the auto industry etc)

Ignatz

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 2:25 p.m.

I guess folks forget how employees were treated in the days before unions and tenure....sad.

goblue32

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 2:08 p.m.

I would gladly take a reasonable cut in pay to help my fellow teachers keep their positions. I have spent too many years wondering if I was going to get a layoff notice, and I am quite surprised that I wasn't on this list.

lumberg48108

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 2:07 p.m.

This is sad and students will suffer but enough of the drama about how "heartwrenching" it is to get a piece of paper that says he dont have a job! People are getting laid off EVERYDAY! Everyone is in the same boat together. What is Michigan's unemployment rate? Detroit is even higher. Everyone is hurting so spare us the sentimental drama about "you have been through this you can not understand the emotional toll." U make it sound like no one in Michigan is hurting and unemployed! I was unemployed for three years and everyday I get an email from a friend who has lost their job! Everyone is hurting. The teachers can join the rest of us!

Lokalisierung

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:59 p.m.

WEll said eyeheartA2. (until the second to last line)

Top Cat

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:53 p.m.

There is absolutely no defense for the practice of "tenure". The least effective teachers should be let go.

Lokalisierung

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:47 p.m.

"To those of you who so tirelessly fought against the millage that most likely would have helped the district avoid layoffs: are you happy now?" I feel fine. My pockets feel heavier.

bruceae

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:42 p.m.

Youth, skill, ability, etc. mean absolutely nothing when you have a union. All that matters is that have more time in than someone else. With the situation the Michigan schools are in I don't know why anyone graduating with even bother to interview in this state. Even if you get hired you are going to be low senority and when something like this happens you're gone.

Jimmy Olsen

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:34 p.m.

@skfina2 It still can be avoided - across the board cuts for all employee groups and lets continue to look at district spending. If the millage had passed, it would have been business as usual. In these days of severely declining revenue and increased costs - what else can be done? It is emotionally wrenching!! Welcome to every other industry in Michigan - we've all been are going through it.

David Jesse

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:25 p.m.

FYI - I just put a PDF up with the contract language in it dealing with procedures for layoffs

Louise

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:23 p.m.

To add to skfina2's comment, not passing the county millage is affecting other school districts in Washtenaw County not just Ann Arbor. My daughter with 5 years of teaching experience will not have a job next Fall in Dexter. Unless you have been through this you can not understand the emotional toll. She and her husband purchased a home and want to stay in Michigan, but now may be forced out of State. Michigan needs to keep young adults in our state. They are the ones that purchase homes, raise families, etc. Something is wrong when the young, energetic, computer savvy teachers making the lowest wages are let go!

djm12652

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:10 p.m.

Perhaps some of the laid off teachers could become police officers or fire dept personnel...oops..sorry...forgot they're getting laid off as well...

plhjr

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 1:03 p.m.

Unions should not exist in this day and age. End of story. I feel for the young teachers as they tend to be more involved and are obviously doing this for passion as most graduate students earn more in their stipend than full time teachers.

SuperFreckleFace

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 12:56 p.m.

@Dagny J I was curious about this too. My child's teacher is brand new this year. What can we do to help this teacher out? We find that the teacher is excellent. Is it low man on the totem pole because they are in a union? No? Hoping to help this teacher out.

ChuckL

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 12:42 p.m.

I like the idea of leasing Skyline out to WCC for an expansion campus; any movement here? It would be a great way to get revenue to the district and allow for innovative programs allowing HS students to earn college credit.

DagnyJ

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 12:34 p.m.

I have heard of HS students putting together petitions about layoffs. They are angry because they say the newest teachers are often the best teachers (that is, teachers from whom they learn the most). The kids often know who is a good teacher. Why doesn't the board know this? Also, maybe it's time to go after expensive sacred cows in the district and send money to the kids who need it most, and to schools that serve the most kids.

MommaG

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 12:02 p.m.

I agree with Marzan! I also have to say that since the Principals were given the job of notifying the teachers about their impending layoffs, why did the district waste paper, envelopes, and postage to mail out letters to these staff members about the possibility? Now they will waste more paper, envelopes and certified postage to notify them of the layoff! When will the district cut back on useless spending?

jondhall

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 11:55 a.m.

I guess this is good news! Where is the Union now? MEA what a waste of vowels. You want $70,000 a year you get nothing, there you go.

skfina2

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 11:45 a.m.

To those of you who so tirelessly fought against the millage that most likely would have helped the district avoid layoffs: are you happy now? 190 teachers will soon hold a piece of paper in their hands that tells them they no longer have a job with the district next year. Whether they get called back or not, it is still emotionally wrenching to have to go through this. And it could have been avoided...very sad.

marzan

Mon, Apr 19, 2010 : 11:41 a.m.

I wish the state legislature would get off it's ass and get the incentives together to offer to teachers that are eligible for retirement. If they would have gotten that package together before their two week Easter vacation our schools would be in a much better position to make good financial decisions.